Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The resurrection does not violate the laws of logic. Just because no one else, either before or since, has been able to walk out of his grave after burial does not mean that God cannot perform a miracle. No one before or since has ridden a donkey to heaven either...but this didn't stop Muhammad. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

First of all, Paul raised the dead (Act 20:10-12).

I'm still waiting to know which law of logic, specifically, the resurrection violates and how.

[boxcar]

Question: "Why should I believe in Christ’s resurrection?"

https://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Question: "Why should I believe in Christ’s resurrection?"

https://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm

Believe it or not, I read the entire article contained in the above link...but I still could not be persuaded by the author's argument. If Jesus really wanted his resurrection to be widely accepted...all he had to do was take a stroll down to the well-populated marketplace after his burial. Instead, he supposedly appeared only to a few of his most loyal followers...who were already convinced of his divinity. Just because a person endures great suffering and even death in defense of his religious beliefs doesn't mean that those beliefs should be accepted as "True" by anyone else. Misguided martyrs of all religious faiths go through this every day...without really convincing -- or converting -- anyone.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Misguided martyrs of all religious faiths go through this every day...without really convincing -- or converting -- anyone.

OK...Have it your way, a permanent "dirt-nap" for you...

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

OK...Have it your way, a permanent "dirt-nap" for you...

Yup. But it will be a great comfort for me to know that you and Boxcar will live forever.

[Cuffdaddy]

Not sure why Bible Prophecy is not discussed more in this thread. For me personally, it has always been the proof needed to believe.

Take a look, hope someone enjoys this:

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley
gracethrufaith.com

“Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:20-21.)

What If You Were God?
If you were God trying to send a message to your people, how would you prove yourself to them? Well, since everyone wants to know the future why not predict it for them, so when it happens as you described it, that would authenticate your message.

That’s what God has done, over thousands of years, and with 100% accuracy. It’s called predictive prophecy. Within its pages the Bible contains thousands of predictive prophecies. The majority of these have already been fulfilled, while the rest are for a time still in our future. It’s is the proof God gives us to verify that He is who He claims to be and no one else is. Here’s how it works.

A Two Question Test
“This is what the Lord says–Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come– yes, let him foretell what will come.” (Isaiah 44:6-7)

Here’s the test. If you want people to accept you as their God, do these two things. First, tell them everything that’s ever happened in the past, and then tell them everything that ever will happen in the future, all with 100% accuracy. This is exactly what the Bible does for Israel and the Church, and as it impacts these two, for the world. No other so-called Holy Book authenticates itself like this. It’s been done through the writings of certain men and women, called by God to speak to the people for Him and to write down His Words, preserving them not only for their time but for all time. This explains Peter’s opening statement above.

There Will Be False Prophets Among You
From time to time some men have falsely claimed that they spoke for God, even though He had instituted a few safeguards. One is found in Deut 18:20-22. “A prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

So if what the “prophet” predicted didn’t come true, every time, he was a false prophet. What he had said was to be ignored and he was to be executed. (Where would that leave Edgar Cayce, Jean Dixon, Nostradamus, Joseph Smith, Ellen White and all the other so-called prophets?)

The Partial Fulfillment
Some prophecies were given for a time far beyond the life of the prophet. In that case a partial fulfillment often took place during the life of the prophet to validate the ultimate fulfillment. Here’s one example.

Jesus said, “I come in my father’s name and you reject me. Another will come in his own name and him you will receive” (John 5:43). A little while later the people had Jesus condemned, and a murderer named Barabbas was released. Some day soon the world, having rejected Jesus, will receive the anti-Christ. Barabbas was the immediate partial fulfillment to validate the long term prophecy of the anti-Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 is another one.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders And he will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The child was born and the Son was given, but His government is yet to come. It will be instituted in the millennium. The birth of the child proves the millennium will come.

Another safeguard is found in Hebrews 1:1-2. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”

Jesus is the Prophet for our age. Every word spoken by Him in the name of God had to agree with what God had said before. Also, every word spoken in the name of God for the last 2000 years has to agree with what Jesus has said. Otherwise either God doesn’t really know the end from the beginning, or Jesus was a false prophet, or the one speaking in His Name is.

If It’s New It Can’t Be True
That’s the simple rule. If you hear someone say, “God is doing a new thing,” or preaching from some book other than the Bible, run the other way. Paul said, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:8).

The Bible contains thousands of prophecies that validate it as the Word of God. They were part of the public record hundreds of years before the fact. Even a casual comparison of world history to Old Testament prophecy will lead you to the undeniable conclusion that this is so. In the New Testament accounts of the life of Jesus alone, there are hundreds of fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament. A mere handful would be enough to defeat the laws of chance. By any standard available, the Bible can be proven reliable beyond reasonable doubt.

Psalm 14 says, “the fool has said in his heart, there is no God.” That’s because he can’t say it in his mind. Denying God isn’t something that can be rationally or logically done following examination of the evidence. It can only be done emotionally by one who rejects the evidence without examining it. The same is true of His Word.

My purpose in writing this is not to list all these prophecies and document their fulfillment. Rather I hope to convince you to do a study of your own, because in doing so you will develop an unshakable faith, something that can’t be developed any other way. But I warn you, a study like this will change you and it won’t take searching through all of them to do so. For me it only took the study of seven to convert me from a church goer to a born again believer and to ignite a passion for the study of God’s word that continues to this day. But that’s a story for another time.



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[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

First of all, Paul raised the dead (Act 20:10-12).

Paul never existed either.

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'm still waiting to know which law of logic, specifically, the resurrection violates and how.

Occam's razor.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What about Isa 2:4? What troubles you, my son, about this text?

First, I'm not your son. I'm probably old enough to be your father.

Second, nothing about the text bothers me. The guy in the video thinks it proves that Jesus was not the Messiah. I'm just mildly curious about your take on it.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If Jesus really wanted his resurrection to be widely accepted...all he had to do was take a stroll down to the well-populated marketplace after his burial.

If he'd come today he could have reached a whole nation.
Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Believe it or not, I read the entire article contained in the above link...but I still could not be persuaded by the author's argument. If Jesus really wanted his resurrection to be widely accepted...all he had to do was take a stroll down to the well-populated marketplace after his burial. Instead, he supposedly appeared only to a few of his most loyal followers...who were already convinced of his divinity. Just because a person endures great suffering and even death in defense of his religious beliefs doesn't mean that those beliefs should be accepted as "True" by anyone else. Misguided martyrs of all religious faiths go through this every day...without really convincing -- or converting -- anyone.

The fact that he didn't gives strong affirmation to the doctrines of Predestination and Election. Christ remained in the areas of Judea and Galilee for 40 days after he rose, revealing himself to his elect.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

First, I'm not your son. I'm probably old enough to be your father.

On the other hand, maybe not.

Second, nothing about the text bothers me. The guy in the video thinks it proves that Jesus was not the Messiah. I'm just mildly curious about your take on it.

No, it proves that "guy in the video" is a day late and a dollar short. The text in Isaiah 2 applies to a restored heavens and earth, which will occur at the Second Coming of Christ.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Paul never existed either.

Prove it.

Occam's razor.

How?

Also, Occam's razor can be a logical fallacy because the simplest solution is not always the right one.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Actor

If he'd come today he could have reached a whole nation.
Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication.

Jesus came at the exact appointed time when he lived the human experience...There were multiple reasons why, specifically the Roman Empire and the corrupted Sanhedrin.

The great symbol of fear by the Romans, was transformed into the greatest symbol of love through Jesus....the CROSS.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Jesus came at the exact appointed time when he lived the human experience...There were multiple reasons why, specifically the Roman Empire and the corrupted Sanhedrin.

The great symbol of fear by the Romans, was transformed into the greatest symbol of love through Jesus....the CROSS.

Hum...Okay.

[thaskalos]

If Jesus were shot with a gun...would we be wearing chains with miniature guns around our necks?