Jorge Navarro

[shoelessjoe]

Check out Kirk Zadie 41% winners for the year out of 119 starters

[Robert Goren]

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMO

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMO

Back twenty years ago you didn't see really high win percentages like you see now days. look at that however you wish.

[BIG49010]

Originally Posted by chadk66

Back twenty years ago you didn't see really high win percentages like you see now days. look at that however you wish.

I think you have seen them for a long time, the balanced attack of your top 20% at every track, have been using vet science to the max for the last 25 years+. The masters are the actual horseman that can combine good vet work, with actual hands on training.

I have heard stories about Spendabuck that he couldn't get out of his stall, and he would see the vet coming and jump up like junkie looking for a fix.

[pondman]

Originally Posted by Cannon shell

These are mostly trivial issues.

He's only had a tag for 4.5 years. The $1,500 fine is a little unusual for most trainers. Most trainer have the $100 and $500 varieties. His name also comes up on during the shock wave scandal at Tamp.

[BIG49010]

You have another shot with a claim in 1st at MTH, opened at 7/5

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMO

They all don't cheat it is too expensive for some barns.

[Cannon shell]

Originally Posted by pondman

He's only had a tag for 4.5 years. The $1,500 fine is a little unusual for most trainers. Most trainer have the $100 and $500 varieties. His name also comes up on during the shock wave scandal at Tamp.

True but the items presented arent really big deals. The $1500 fine is way above and beyond the "crime" committed. Of course perhaps he had been warned before or there were other circumstances that we don't know about but administering an over the counter electrolyte paste hardly warrants that kind of fine.

I'm not implying that the guy is clean or is on the up and up because the truth is I dont believe that to be true. However the 4 items that were presented pretty much have little to do with his miracle working.

[GMB@BP]

I was looking at some races yesterday and saw a race with a -30 pace, meaning that basically the horses absolutely walked on the lead, like 6F race with a half in 49, yet some horse made up 7 lengths in the final furlong as the third choice with little form...

horse was first off the claim by Navarro with little form........never seen that before but it was absolutely suspicious.

[BIG49010]

Another chance in 8th at Mth, 2nd off claim, switch back to grass

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by BIG49010

He did ok at Tampa too, I think his percentages have always been decent, he seems to get bet quite a bit. The horse was live on the board, you had to figure horse was going to run in that last race, and favorite was dropping from sky which is tough to bet at a short price in 5k claimer.

Navarro's winning percentages:

2009: 13%
2010: 17%
2011: 21%
2012: 26%
2013: 36%

Seems to be learning fast. Sure it's just hat, oats, and water and claiming only from weak barns.

[BIG49010]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Navarro's winning percentages:

2009: 13%
2010: 17%
2011: 21%
2012: 26%
2013: 36%

Seems to be learning fast. Sure it's just hat, oats, and water and claiming only from weak barns.

I think his stock is improving and the competition at Tampa and Monmouth is in decline. This factors into his move up in percentage, I really don't consider him a "super trainer" like a Moya or Ness. You never know though, I thought Marcus Vitali would do much better at MTH, and for the most part he has been a failure.

[speed]

Originally Posted by BIG49010

I think his stock is improving and the competition at Tampa and Monmouth is in decline. This factors into his move up in percentage, I really don't consider him a "super trainer" like a Moya or Ness. You never know though, I thought Marcus Vitali would do much better at MTH, and for the most part he has been a failure.

It's not just the winning % but the dramatic forward moves so many of his claims have been making.

[Cannon shell]

Originally Posted by speed

It's not just the winning % but the dramatic forward moves so many of his claims have been making.

The biggest difference when guys go juice is the huge % of on the board finishes that become wins.

2010 143 - 25-30-22
2013 176 - 63-37-26

Look at Ness
2002 180 24-27-25
2003 182 30-19-33
2004 287 34-45-45
2005 274 42-32-44
2006 431 65-43-49

Then magic
2007 454-132-85-65
2008 555-153-98-83
2009 786-258-143-114

Those horses that used to hit the board and run 3rd were now winning.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Cannon shell

The biggest difference when guys go juice is the huge % of on the board finishes that become wins.

2010 143 - 25-30-22
2013 176 - 63-37-26

Look at Ness
2002 180 24-27-25
2003 182 30-19-33
2004 287 34-45-45
2005 274 42-32-44
2006 431 65-43-49

Then magic
2007 454-132-85-65
2008 555-153-98-83
2009 786-258-143-114

Those horses that used to hit the board and run 3rd were now winning.

when Ness trained in MN the word around the barn area was he was def. helping them out considerably. And your stats above certainly point in that direction. And somebody posted his rap sheet a few months back and I believe it was quite long. In regards to Navarro, his stats make sense. When you first start out you don't have the stock. It takes a few years to build up the barn. His stats indicate exactly that.