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08-31-2017, 09:22 PM
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#1
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Rabbit or not?
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08-31-2017, 09:28 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
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Not sure how I feel about this, I think its cheap but they have been using it in Europe for 200 years.
I do agree with him though, he had other horses that could have been entered and they should have given him a heads up.
I bet we end up with a 3 horse field.
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08-31-2017, 10:22 PM
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#3
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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This really goes back to why they used to couple horses to begin with...that if a trainer has multiple horses in a race, that a pace or positioning strategy could be used to gain an advantage...
Now that decoupling is in vogue, due ostensibly to recent shorter field size and the desire to have as many betting interests as possible, running...
...and with the rise of the super trainer phenom and consolidation owner/ trainer holdings, this issue of the trainer with multiple runners entered and their intentions is sure to be a common theme...
...for example, as recently as Lady Eli's last race, when Chad Brown had three entered in a Stakes race with a short field and with Antonoe's oddly run race...
...It appears here that May B's trainer was singled out because he was honest enough to inform the stewards of his intention to run May B as a rabbit, no doubt to soften up Gun Runner so his other mount might have a better chance at the win...and even if May B doesn't win, he still has a chance at some portion of purse money...so I totally understand the trainers point of wanting him in the race....and he did pay all the fees to run...
It's like the stewards know that this sort of thing is common BUT a trainer is not supposed to be vocal about their intentions...or something...strange indeed.
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08-31-2017, 11:07 PM
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#4
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
This really goes back to why they used to couple horses to begin with...that if a trainer has multiple horses in a race, that a pace or positioning strategy could be used to gain an advantage...
Now that decoupling is in vogue, due ostensibly to recent shorter field size and the desire to have as many betting interests as possible, running...
...and with the rise of the super trainer phenom and consolidation owner/ trainer holdings, this issue of the trainer with multiple runners entered and their intentions is sure to be a common theme...
...for example, as recently as Lady Eli's last race, when Chad Brown had three entered in a Stakes race with a short field and with Antonoe's oddly run race...
...It appears here that May B's trainer was singled out because he was honest enough to inform the stewards of his intention to run May B as a rabbit, no doubt to soften up Gun Runner so his other mount might have a better chance at the win...and even if May B doesn't win, he still has a chance at some portion of purse money...so I totally understand the trainers point of wanting him in the race....and he did pay all the fees to run...
It's like the stewards know that this sort of thing is common BUT a trainer is not supposed to be vocal about their intentions...or something...strange indeed.
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I got it wrong here and I need to make a retraction regarding trainers intentions here...this time it seems more like about owners intentions and their ability to run their horses how and where they intend to...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 08-31-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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08-31-2017, 11:25 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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There's a long tradition of using rabbits in New York stakes races. Hedavar, Life's Hope, etc. Didn't know that it suddenly became illegal.
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08-31-2017, 11:29 PM
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#6
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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How is this one any different than the one from the Whitney? It isn't like that horse, though a better horse, was in the race to win either. Of course the stewards say they believe he was in to win, proving once again they are pretty clueless.
Last edited by cj; 08-31-2017 at 11:31 PM.
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08-31-2017, 11:33 PM
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#7
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,797
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If the horse fits, qualifies for the conditions, let him run
__________________
WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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09-01-2017, 12:12 AM
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#8
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
How is this one any different than the one from the Whitney? It isn't like that horse, though a better horse, was in the race to win either. Of course the stewards say they believe he was in to win, proving once again they are pretty clueless.
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Yes, and even the track announcer said in the Whitney, going into the first turn, that Cautious Giant was out there "doing his job" ( of being the rabbit)....so it isn't any different at all, except that before the race maybe the owner did not announce that the intention for his horse was to be a rabbit...
...I can understand the stewards position somewhat that they must maintain the illusion that each horse is in the race to win...otherwise the (unknowing) public would be somewhat placed in a foolhardy position...of backing speedy but non-winning nags...hence the need to keep talk of rabbits in the hole...have your rabbit BUT never advertise it...
that's the lesson from the racing gods here...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 09-01-2017 at 12:15 AM.
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09-01-2017, 12:16 AM
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#9
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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It's fine to advertise that the horse is going to be a rabbit...theyre trying to run a bottom level claiming sprinter in a 9 furlong race. That's the issue.
I understand it's a slippery slope but this was going to end badly IMO. Looch has a ton of horses, they should have picked a better rabbit.
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09-01-2017, 12:20 AM
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#10
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Yes, and even the track announcer said in the Whitney, going into the first turn, that Cautious Giant was out there "doing his job" (of being the rabbit)....so it isn't any different at all, except that before the race maybe the owner did not announce that the intention for his horse was to be a rabbit...
...I can understand the stewards position somewhat that they must maintain the illusion that each horse is in the race to win...otherwise the (unknowing) public would be somewhat placed in a foolhardy position...of backing speedy but non-winning nags...hence the need to keep talk of rabbits in the hole...have your rabbit BUT never advertise it...
that's the lesson from the racing gods here...
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The stewards are also advertising they are idiots if they need to be told.
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09-01-2017, 12:21 AM
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#11
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
It's fine to advertise that the horse is going to be a rabbit...theyre trying to run a bottom level claiming sprinter in a 9 furlong race. That's the issue.
I understand it's a slippery slope but this was going to end badly IMO. Looch has a ton of horses, they should have picked a better rabbit.
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I do agree with this. In any case, the chances this horse could have bothered Gun Runner are slim and none.
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09-01-2017, 12:31 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 126
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If Cautious Giant's shoe doesn't get stuck to Gun Runner, would the rabbit be less of an issue?
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09-01-2017, 12:33 AM
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#13
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorsemenHeist
If Cautious Giant's shoe doesn't get stuck to Gun Runner, would the rabbit be less of an issue?
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Shoe or no shoe, he is a top 5 terrible rabbit. Actually set a slow pace.
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09-01-2017, 01:34 AM
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#14
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Shoe or no shoe, he is a top 5 terrible rabbit. Actually set a slow pace.
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Cj..what was it about Antonoes last race with Lady Eli that you found odd...? I didn't expect Dickinson to be that close to the pace either..
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ballston-spa-s
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 09-01-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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09-01-2017, 01:39 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Cj..what was it about Antonoes last race with Lady Eli that you found odd...? I didn't expect Dickinson to be that close to the pace either..
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for me, sure did not look like she was ridden to win the race, some strange rides there.
You know Chad loves Lady Eli...do you want to beat the horse the trainer would be crushed if she loses by his other filly?
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