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Old 01-06-2012, 01:47 PM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
If you read all my posts I've repeatedly criticized any deal making and said it was shady etc... I don't it's fair to move the chain towards something I would feel differently about to represent what I feel about this.

... and asking someone to scratch a horse
Asking? Therein lies the rub, doesn't it?

Even if I believed all he was doing was asking, that is one slippery slope to go down. Maybe he is "asking" one to scratch while "asking" another still running not to try. If he doesn't like the answer, maybe he asks a jockey. I have a little trouble believing these guys know where to draw the line.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by cj
Do you know ANYTHING about Scooter Davis? Anything about his history in the game?
yeah, but he's dy-no-mite out there at charles town in them 4 1/2 furlong races.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
The one ultimately responsible is the one that does something, not the entity that is supposed to monitor him.
All you guys had to do was say you think the connections did some shady things, but the tracks are also culpable for either not having the rules in place to prevent this, not enforcing them, or actively helping, and I never would have said a thing. I have better things to do.

The reason I even put my two cents in is because it appears to be personal when people start criticizing a win streak because of the scratches and search for soft spots and can't even acknowledge that the tracks are also responsible if shady things were going on and they did nothing about it.

Let's flip your more extreme scenario around.

If someone stole something from your house and the cops knew who did it and not only didn't arrest him, but invited him to your friends house, how would you feel?

I suspect you'd be pissed off at both the robber and the cops.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Asking? Therein lies the rub, doesn't it?

Even if I believed all he was doing was asking, that is one slippery slope to go down. Maybe he is "asking" one to scratch while "asking" another still running not to try. If he doesn't like the answer, maybe he asks a jockey. I have a little trouble believing these guys know where to draw the line.
My tone would be wildly different if I thought anyone pulled a horse.

I don't know anything about these guys. If they have a long record of shady dealings that make you feel something like that is possible, then I understand your feelings about this, but it's probably an even bigger mistake for the tracks to do nothing about any dealings that might have occurred.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:27 PM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
My tone would be wildly different if I thought anyone pulled a horse.

I don't know anything about these guys. If they have a long record of shady dealings that make you feel something like that is possible, then I understand your feelings about this, but it's probably an even bigger mistake for the tracks to do nothing about any dealings that might have occurred.
I think I've mentioned the track having a small role a few times. However, I know actually catching them is very tough.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I think I've mentioned the track having a small role a few times. However, I know actually catching them is very tough.
The whole thing sort of reminds me of the Big Brown Belmont race.

A lot of people had mixed emotions about that race (myself included) . Almost everyone wanted to see a Triple Crown winner, but the thought of Dutrow being the winning trainer and IEAH the winning owner repulsed a lot of people.

I was mostly rooting for the Triple Crown, but I was also rooting for the tracks to find a way to bar the SOB because he already had a long list of violations.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #592
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I made the mistake of thinking you had read it all, and that was my mistake. I've made comments mid-thread before without reading it all.
My comment wasn't personal towards you. It isn't always easy to get my point across in print.

My point is this...people defending these connections only make it easier for them others to do the same in the future. It is a shame these connections, with a long history of doing bad things, happened to claim this incredibly game and rugged horse. And now because they did, they are being paraded in front in front of the sport as a positive story that we should all get behind.

Personally, these are the last kind of people I want to promote no matter the reason. Remember Michael Gill winning an Eclipse? Why do I have a feeling of deja vu?
No...the mistake was mine...

I overreacted, and got on your case for no good reason.

I've been a little on edge lately...and I don't know why...

It might be age related; the 50s are not easy to get used to, I guess...
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:38 PM   #593
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The one ultimately responsible is the one that does something, not the entity that is supposed to monitor him.
This is it in a nutshell.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:35 PM   #594
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2011 Vox Populi Award Goes to Rapid Redux

The awards keep coming in for the blue-collar worker Rapid Redux, who won his 22nd straight race Jan. 5. A day after it was announced that the 5-year-old chestnut would receive the Special Eclipse Award for his accomplishments in 2011, he was named winner of the Secretariat Vox Populi Award.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...to-rapid-redux
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:13 PM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
The one ultimately responsible is the one that does something, not the entity that is supposed to monitor him.
Would you say that to the president of Penn State or to Joe Paterno or the two others who did nothing to stop Sandusky? You don't agree with the term "enabler"? IMO the entity that fails to monitor is just as guilty in that they failed to do there jobs. The jobs they are being paid to do.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by melman
Would you say that to the president of Penn State or to Joe Paterno or the two others who did nothing to stop Sandusky? You don't agree with the term "enabler"? IMO the entity that fails to monitor is just as guilty in that they failed to do there jobs. The jobs they are being paid to do.

Aww shit, just when I thought this thing was winding down!!
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melman
Would you say that to the president of Penn State or to Joe Paterno or the two others who did nothing to stop Sandusky? You don't agree with the term "enabler"? IMO the entity that fails to monitor is just as guilty in that they failed to do there jobs. The jobs they are being paid to do.
Of course I would. They helped, but ultimately Sandusky is responsible. I'm not saying the others should get a pass.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:01 PM   #598
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Andymays said that he had "inside information" about the NYRA fiasco...and we all called him up on it.
Actually, Andy never said such a thing, however, one could imply that from his choice of words, which is why he was called to clarify his statement.

Just clearing that up.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:52 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melman
Would you say that to the president of Penn State or to Joe Paterno or the two others who did nothing to stop Sandusky? You don't agree with the term "enabler"? IMO the entity that fails to monitor is just as guilty in that they failed to do there jobs. The jobs they are being paid to do.
That is it in a nutshell.

The person that commits the crime is ultimately responsible for the crime, but the person that is supposed to police things is guilty of negligence if he knows and does nothing and the same crime if he assists.

Without proper policing of the tracks, half the trainers in America would be dopers and the other half would be making side deals to ensure easy trips, soft fields etc... Poor Bill Mott would be the only honest guy left.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:11 PM   #600
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I'm a bit surprised that md contorted a str/alw heading to fit the horse. I'd be even more surprised if resident horsemen have not taken issue with this.

As to entry box conspiracies (in general), an archived blog of mine, 'Superman Never Scratches,' might lend some behind the scenes insight.
It's a sticky issue from several perspectives and has become one of the biggest problems facing the industry.

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