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Old 08-11-2018, 12:36 AM   #1
highnote
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ADW rating service

I was hoping HANA would take the ball and run with the idea of an ADW rating service. Maybe they still will?

In the meantime, can you list things that are important to you in an ADW service?

I will collect them and try to organize them and then post them here occasionally. Then I can try to do a survey to find which ADWs offer the things that are most important.

The goal is to have an ADW rating service kind of like HANA's track rating service.

Feel free to post...
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:25 AM   #2
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I'll start:

1) rebates that matter

2) variety of tracks offered

3) nice bonus

4) free or below market PPs

5) little or no site down time

6) responsive customer service

7) account security against hacks

8) not a high priority, but investigate crypto as a possible banking option
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:27 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 12/ALL/ALL View Post
I'll start:

1) rebates that matter

2) variety of tracks offered

3) nice bonus

4) free or below market PPs

5) little or no site down time

6) responsive customer service

7) account security against hacks

8) not a high priority, but investigate crypto as a possible banking option
I can start a spreadsheet with 1-8 as column headings.

1) What do you mean by "matter"? An average of say 5% on straight wagers across all tracks? Maybe 4% on straight wagers at major tracks like BEL or SA? Or a minimum rebate on straight wagers of at least 7% regardless of track? What about exotics?

2) Foreign as well as U.S. -- Europe, S. America, and the Far East?

3) What do you mean by #3? What kinds of bonuses?
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highnote View Post
I can start a spreadsheet with 1-8 as column headings.

1) What do you mean by "matter"? An average of say 5% on straight wagers across all tracks? Maybe 4% on straight wagers at major tracks like BEL or SA? Or a minimum rebate on straight wagers of at least 7% regardless of track? What about exotics?

2) Foreign as well as U.S. -- Europe, S. America, and the Far East?

3) What do you mean by #3? What kinds of bonuses?
1) 7% sounds nice

2) I only bet North American tracks but I'm certainly open to giving Europe a try someday, especially the UK, Ireland, and France.

3) Like AmWager and XpressBet with their $500 signup bonuses.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 12/ALL/ALL View Post
1) 7% sounds nice

2) I only bet North American tracks but I'm certainly open to giving Europe a try someday, especially the UK, Ireland, and France.

3) Like AmWager and XpressBet with their $500 signup bonuses.
I like betting the French trotting races where the horses do NOT pull a sulky. Instead, the jockeys actually ride the horses. It looks ridiculous the first time you see it, but once you get used to it, it is fun to watch.

$500 bonus is pretty good! I never got a bonus when I signed up.

Not sure how to list rebates in a spreadsheet. It's kind of an unwritten rule that the actual amount of rebates and the tracks they give rebates on are kept hush-hush.

However, maybe the average win/pl/show and various exotic rebates can be averaged along with the high and low rebates.

For example, some ADWs give zero rebate on the KY Derby, but might give a 19% rebate on some bush league dog track.

It gets complicated because there is also the matter of source market fees which can affect the amount of the rebate for people in a certain jurisdictions.

But all this information should be publicly available for horseplayers.

Who benefits the most by makng this information difficult to obtain?
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:23 PM   #6
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In a perfect world information about rebates would be transparent.

But there's a reason the topic of rebates has become hush hush.

And there's a reason HANA hasn't published a list of ADWs with info about rebates.

Have you considered the law of unintended consequences?

If HANA were to publish a list of independent ADWs with anything that even remotely resembled a rate sheet:

I can pretty much guarantee you that every independent ADW on such a list would face a serious backlash from the industry.

I'm talking about tracks and horsemen threatening to pull track signals, demanding even higher signal fees than they do now, and tracks and horsemen doing everything in their power to make it increasingly difficult for the independent ADW owner to stay in business.

For no other reason than the name of the independent ADW appears on HANA's list.

Look, I happen to think that publishing a list of ADWs is a good idea.

But if we go there, we have to do it in such a way that we're not putting a bullseye on the back of the independent ADW owner.



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Last edited by Jeff P; 08-11-2018 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:50 PM   #7
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I used to ask for transparency about rebates...but, as Jeff P has already stated, that's an unreasonable request due to the consequences that it raises.

Then I asked for level state laws...whereby certain states wouldn't be excluded from whatever rebates are known and available. But that too seems to be an impossible hill to climb due to the governmental component.

Now I just ask for a better grade of video playback...so I can follow the horses with more clarity while I watch my replays. This request seems modest enough...and it might be implemented during my lifetime.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:12 PM   #8
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My thought was NOT to publish the actual rebate each ADW gives for each track and type of wager, but instead to list the AVERAGE rebate a particular ADW offers for each type of wager, along with the high, low, and perhaps median. There are too many tracks for which rebates are available to be able to list them all in a summary format.

It will be up to the bettor to do more research.

One thing I would encourage every bettor on paceadvantage to do is get an account with an ADW that offers rebates and use it even when they are at the track. Do NOT wager directly with the track unless you are getting a rebate. That's a sucker's bet. You're being taken advantage of and you are at a big disadvantage to professional bettors who all get rebates.

So the purpose of putting together an ADW spreadsheet is to help raise awareness in the betting community and drive more customers to use ADWs for wagering.

Rebates will increase churn and that benefits everyone.

Last edited by highnote; 08-11-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:46 PM   #9
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This is going to be an interesting study.

I just learned about the QWIKbetz.com ADW.

It looks like they are Long Island based and operate through Suffolk OTB.

They clearly post on their website that they give rebates in the range of 0.5% to 7.0% depending on the type of wager and daily volume.

These types of rewards are good for bettors who use them and it's good to see the use of rewards is spreading.

I checked out Xpressbet's reward plans. They offer a large variety of rewards that can be used in many ways -- from dining vouchers to wager vouchers. The large number of Xpressbet's offerings make it difficult to put their reward plans into a spreadsheet for easy comparison.

For example, a bettor who earns 80,000 XB points can exchange it for a $100 wagering voucher. 72,000 XB points gets you a $100 meal voucher. Depending on your needs a wager voucher might be more valuable than a meal voucher -- or vice versa.

Also, if I am reading their terms correctly, if you wager on a Gulfstream track Xpressbet gives you 4 XB points for each dollar wagered. So if you bet $20,000 you could get a $100 wagering voucher. That is a rebate of about 0.005.

Other ADWs might give you, say, 0.05 on Gulfstream wagers, regardless of your betting volume -- that is 10 times larger than Xpressbet's rebate on their own track.

I applaud Xpressbet for offering a wide variety of rewards and I also encourage bettors to shop for the rewards that best meet their needs.

Now that I think about it, wagering on-track without rewards might meet some people's entertainment needs because it saves them the time and effort it takes to sign up for an ADW or a rewards package. That time savings is worth something.

So I can't really knock tracks for NOT offering rebates.

Last edited by highnote; 08-11-2018 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:30 PM   #10
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Here is a list of ADWs that appear to be U.S. based. Feel free to add to the list and I will keep track of them and occasionally post an updated list.

I included a link to their promotions or rewards pages.

Promotions are things like sign-up bonuses or short-term promotions. Whereas, rewards are more permanent for things like rebates or other types of vouchers.

Amwager.com https://www.amwager.com/promos/cash-rewards
NYRABets.com https://www.nyrabets.com/#promo-calendar
SaratogaBet.com / capitalotb.com http://www.capitalotb.com/capital-cash-player-rewards/
eBetonline.com / sportech.net
mywinners.com -- Connecticut OTB https://www.mywinners.com/why-mywinn...yalty-rewards/ run by sportech.net
bspot.com -- could not find info about rewards
betptc.com https://betptc.com/client-ui/betptc/promotions
racingchannel.com -- could not connect
greyhoundchannel.com https://www.greyhoundchannel.com/promotions
qwikbetz.com https://www.qwikbetz.com/rewards.do
twinspires.com https://www.twinspires.com/tsc-rewards
xpressbet.com https://www.xpressbet.com/rewards#levels
HorseRacesNow.com -- could not find rewards or promotions page
tvg.com https://www.tvg.com/promos/WagerRewards/
usracing.com https://www.usracing.com/rebates
phonebet.com / parxracing.com https://www.parxracing.com/inc/modal...es.php#rewards

Last edited by highnote; 08-11-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highnote View Post
Here is a list of ADWs that appear to be U.S. based. Feel free to add to the list and I will keep track of them and occasionally post an updated list.

I included a link to their promotions or rewards pages.

Promotions are things like sign-up bonuses or short-term promotions. Whereas, rewards are more permanent for things like rebates or other types of vouchers.

Amwager.com https://www.amwager.com/promos/cash-rewards
NYRABets.com https://www.nyrabets.com/#promo-calendar
SaratogaBet.com / capitalotb.com http://www.capitalotb.com/capital-cash-player-rewards/
eBetonline.com / sportech.net
mywinners.com -- Connecticut OTB https://www.mywinners.com/why-mywinn...yalty-rewards/ run by sportech.net
bspot.com -- could not find info about rewards
betptc.com https://betptc.com/client-ui/betptc/promotions
racingchannel.com -- could not connect
greyhoundchannel.com https://www.greyhoundchannel.com/promotions
qwikbetz.com https://www.qwikbetz.com/rewards.do
twinspires.com https://www.twinspires.com/tsc-rewards
xpressbet.com https://www.xpressbet.com/rewards#levels
HorseRacesNow.com -- could not find rewards or promotions page
tvg.com https://www.tvg.com/promos/WagerRewards/
usracing.com https://www.usracing.com/rebates
phonebet.com / parxracing.com https://www.parxracing.com/inc/modal...es.php#rewards
drf.com https://bets.drf.com/rewards
added Daily Racing Form
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:11 PM   #12
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added idabet -- it looks like it is a sportstech property.
added betamerica
added empirecitybets

Amwager.com https://www.amwager.com/promos/cash-rewards
betamerica.com https://extra.betamerica.com/promotions/wager-rewards/
betptc.com https://betptc.com/client-ui/betptc/promotions
bspot.com -- could not find info about rewards
drf.com https://bets.drf.com/rewards
eBetonline.com is the portal to sportech.net which appears to operate the following two ADWs (maybe there are more?):
* idabet.com https://www.idabet.com/idarewards-cash/ run by sportech.net
* mywinners.com -- Connecticut OTB https://www.mywinners.com/why-mywinn...yalty-rewards/ run by sportech.net
empirecity.com https://www.empirecitybets.com/help:...020Rewards.pdf
greyhoundchannel.com https://www.greyhoundchannel.com/promotions
HorseRacesNow.com -- could not find rewards or promotions page
NYRABets.com https://www.nyrabets.com/#promo-calendar
phonebet.com / parxracing.com https://www.parxracing.com/inc/modal...es.php#rewards
racingchannel.com -- could not connect
qwikbetz.com https://www.qwikbetz.com/rewards.do
SaratogaBet.com / capitalotb.com http://www.capitalotb.com/capital-cash-player-rewards/
tvg.com https://www.tvg.com/promos/WagerRewards/
twinspires.com https://www.twinspires.com/tsc-rewards
usracing.com https://www.usracing.com/rebates
xpressbet.com https://www.xpressbet.com/rewards#levels

Last edited by highnote; 08-12-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:29 AM   #13
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Here is one for you:

https://www.keenelandselect.com/
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:20 AM   #14
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Thank you!
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:25 AM   #15
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Updated with 7 new ones.

Amwager.com https://www.amwager.com/promos/cash-rewards
betamerica.com https://extra.betamerica.com/promotions/wager-rewards/
betptc.com https://betptc.com/client-ui/betptc/promotions
bspot.com -- could not find info about rewards
compubet.com https://compubet.com/signup/
drf.com https://bets.drf.com/rewards
eBetonline.com is the portal to sportech.net which appears to operate the following two ADWs (maybe there are more?):
* idabet.com https://www.idabet.com/idarewards-cash/ run by sportech.net
* mywinners.com -- Connecticut OTB https://www.mywinners.com/why-mywinn...yalty-rewards/ run by sportech.net
empirecity.com https://www.empirecitybets.com/help:...020Rewards.pdf
fingerlakesbonusbets.com https://www.fingerlakesbonusbets.com/promotions
greyhoundchannel.com https://www.greyhoundchannel.com/promotions
hollywoodraces.com https://www.hollywoodraces.com/promo...sign-up-offer/
horseplayersbet.com https://bet.horseplayersbet.com/promotions
HorseRacesNow.com -- could not find rewards or promotions page
keenelandselect.com https://www.keenelandselect.com/rewards
NYRABets.com https://www.nyrabets.com/#promo-calendar
offtrackbetting.com https://www.offtrackbetting.com/prom...nup-bonus.html
phonebet.com / parxracing.com https://www.parxracing.com/inc/modal...es.php#rewards
racingchannel.com -- could not connect
qwikbetz.com https://www.qwikbetz.com/rewards.do
SaratogaBet.com / capitalotb.com http://www.capitalotb.com/capital-cash-player-rewards/
tvg.com https://www.tvg.com/promos/WagerRewards/
twinspires.com https://www.twinspires.com/tsc-rewards
usracing.com https://www.usracing.com/rebates
* usracing.com provides ADW and racebook reviews, news, stories and horse racing information. No actual wagering activity takes place at USRacing.com.
watchandwager.com https://www.watchandwager.com/rewards
xpressbet.com https://www.xpressbet.com/rewards#levels

Last edited by highnote; 08-13-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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