Thread for Russian Attack on Ukraine

[elysiantraveller]

There you have your reason;

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1501573764445884426

__________________
Dumbest timeline confirmed...

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Poland announced publicly the transfer to Rammstein without first clearing with the US or German hosts.

The order of events is common knowledge and not up for debate.

Certainly a misstep that all of you can't wait to relish in but those are the facts.

You are a gullible fellow aren't you.

I suppose the decline of the polar bear population is common knowledge and not up for debate as well.

Since you're so good at goose stepping in lockstep, can you tell me if it hurts your heels when you do it?

Nothing is common knowledge and not up for debate. Never. Ever.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Poland announced publicly the transfer to Rammstein without first clearing with the US or German hosts.

The order of events is common knowledge and not up for debate.

Certainly a misstep that all of you can't wait to relish in but those are the facts.

I know I'm dumb, so I know why I didn't catch it yesterday...but I'm surprised you weren't warning us in advance that this "deal" announced by Poland wasn't actually confirmed or official yet...I guess like everyone else, you were blindsided.

[Dave Schwartz]

Am I misunderstanding that what Poland is desiring to do is trade in a bunch of old migs for a $60m upgrade on each?

Isn't this like trading a 2003 Corolla for a 2022 Lambo, even up?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by tucker6

You are a gullible fellow aren't you.

I suppose the decline of the polar bear population is common knowledge and not up for debate as well.

Since you're so good at goose stepping in lockstep, can you tell me if it hurts your heels when you do it?

Nothing is common knowledge and not up for debate. Never. Ever.

Not sure what polar bears had to do with anything but I did post the German Chancellor nixing the deal.

Hope this helps.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Am I misunderstanding that what Poland is desiring to do is trade in a bunch of old migs for a $60m upgrade on each?

Isn't this like trading a 2003 Corolla for a 2022 Lambo, even up?

Not really.

The F16s would be modernized to 4.5 generation status. Unsure about the MiGs and their modernization.

Both are originally 4th generation fighters.

Poland is already upgrading their equipment and slated to aquire F16s and F35s.

The US is already phasing the F16 out and we have like 1200 of them.

Most of NATO is going to F35/Eurofighter/F16. You'd rank them in that order too... in fairness the F35 shits all over both though.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Point me to this deal...

Surely it was written down somewhere.

"To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels".

Since then, the US/west/NATO used it's typical underhanded approach to justify ignoring those original assurances and expand its influence.

The west considers Russia an adversary and does all sorts of underhanded and shady things to improve it's security position and gain access to natural resources. Ukraine is critical on both counts. When Ukraine had a Russia friendly president John McCain went there are actually tried to start a civil war so we could push him out and get a Europe/US friendly government in place.

Don't be a sheep that ignores Russian propaganda but listens to ours. There are no good guys in this. There are bad and worse. You, I, and Ukrainian citizens are the good guys. Our government is a bad guy. Putin is a very bad guy.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I know I'm dumb, so I know why I didn't catch it yesterday...but I'm surprised you weren't warning us in advance that this "deal" announced by Poland wasn't actually confirmed or official yet...I guess like everyone else, you were blindsided.

Fog of war.

Things happen quickly and its weird the Poles would announce without clearing it with the other two parties.

We now know they didn't as Germany nixed the transfer.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

"To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels".

Since then, the US/west/NATO used it's typical underhanded approach to justify ignoring those original assurances.

So it's not written down anywhere.

Just checking.

Let's call the Soviet Union and see if they want to put pen to paper.

Hope this helps.

[JustRalph]

I”LL take one of those extra F-16’s

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

So it's not written down anywhere.

Just checking.

Let's call the Soviet Union and see if they want to put pen to paper.

Hope this helps.

At least now I know you have no sense of righteousness.

You think it's OK for the Secretary of State of the US and NATO to give assurances to Russia about its plans in private meetings and in front of the whole world in order to achieve its policy goals, then do the opposite, ignore repeated Russian warnings over it, and then blame it all on them when they invade?

Great.

No wonder we are almost in WW3. Out citizens are almost as bad as our
government.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

At least now I know you have no sense of righteousness.

You think it's OK for the Secretary of State of the US and NATO to give assurances to Russia about its plans in private meetings and in front of the whole world in order to achieve its policy goals, then do the opposite, ignore repeated Russian warnings over it, and then blame it all on them when they invade?

Great.

No wonder we are almost in WW3. Out citizens are almost as bad as our
government.

I think losers in geopolitical conflicts don't get to write the rules.

If it was so important to them they should probably have the receipts right?

Hope this helps.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

I”LL take one of those extra F-16’s

I hate to think what it would cost today to fill the tank on one of those.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I think losers in geopolitical conflicts don't get to write the rules.

If it was so important to them they should probably have the receipts right?

Hope this helps.

Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.

[Elkchester Road]

[quote=Tom;2791979]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

The entire planet knows Biden is an early stage dementia patient that was never anything special to begin with. They don't know whether to laugh, cry, take advantage, or just remain bewildered that someone like this could get elected in the US.[/QUOTE]

I'll tell you how......

That would be true. And they are going to stick to their "Logic"...and defend it...no matter how bad it gets. Their misery is their contribution to "the cause". They think that misery should be shared.