Thread for Russian Attack on Ukraine

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

I see we've entered the shotgun phase of the discussion where we throw everything we can at a wall hoping it sticks.

I've been saying the same things about this war for months trying to get you see past your naive perspective. Our history makes it clear how we tend to try to resolve problems like this and is consistent with what I am saying.

Also, when I say you are naive, it's not an insult. I used to believe the crap our media and government told us for decades. But at a certain point it became obvious they were FOS. So I expanded my reading and heard other perspectives on what's actually going on and why. Now it's clearer.

[garyscpa]

I always thought it was spelled "lien."

[mhaney0423]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

There is only one likely culprit.

Nordstream 2 isn't even online yet and Germany has managed to survive the past couple of years.

There is enough capacity already through existing Eastern European pipelines to keep Europe warm...

NordStream 1 and 2 were about not having to pay transit fees through those countries.

Russia maximizes economic pain hitting the pipelines.

Edit) They are losing this war and are trying to play any bit of leverage they have.

Im not so sure about this, there is a helluva a lot of gas bubbling up in the Baltic Sea, that's Russian $ bubbling up there and I dont think it can be stopped for at least a week. Russia was only going to use those pipelines as a means to blackmail the West and possibly fracture the alliance and support for Ukraine during the winter.

It actually makes sense if the US or NATO did it, it's going to cost Russia a fortune, now and later. If we did do it, I fully support it.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

There is only one likely culprit.

Nordstream 2 isn't even online yet and Germany has managed to survive the past couple of years.

There is enough capacity already through existing Eastern European pipelines to keep Europe warm...

NordStream 1 and 2 were about not having to pay transit fees through those countries.

Russia maximizes economic pain hitting the pipelines.

Edit) They are losing this war and are trying to play any bit of leverage they have.

For God's sake our own president is on video saying he was going to get rid of it and the US has something to gain by it (cutting Russia off economically longer term, preventing Germany from negotiating peace when winter comes) and Russia everything to lose by it and you still think Russia did it?

If I suspected Russia did it I'd at least make the sensible case that it was a false flag operation that Russia pulled off to make the world think the US is insane (which it is) and wants to escalate the war (which it apparently does).

Now if Russia starts cutting fiber lines that connect the communications and the internet in response we are in a much bigger war because these dimwits in DC and the neocons driving it are war mongering sociopaths.

There are easy outs to this that secure Ukraine's defense long term and give Putin what he wants now. The US is too dumb to negotiate now and simply wait for him to die. He's not a young healthy man anymore. He's not going to be in charge for that much longer. We don't have to start WW3 to get rid of him.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by mhaney0423

It actually makes sense if the US or NATO did it, it's going to cost Russia a fortune, now and later. If we did do it, I fully support it.

You won't support it if we did it, he can prove it, and he decides to cut a bunch of fiber optic cables that connect global communication and the internet in response. Russia has mostly their own system. If they start cutting fiber optic cables it will create chaos in the west and hardly impact him at all. That's the thing about war. The other side gets to fight back and isn't predictable. You don't want to escalate. You want to find solutions that both sides can live with and deescalate before someone does something they are going to regret like blowing up pipelines.

[classhandicapper]

I don't care how much people hate Trump, when he's right he's right. He's right again today.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by mhaney0423

Im not so sure about this, there is a helluva a lot of gas bubbling up in the Baltic Sea, that's Russian $ bubbling up there and I dont think it can be stopped for at least a week. Russia was only going to use those pipelines as a means to blackmail the West and possibly fracture the alliance and support for Ukraine during the winter.

It actually makes sense if the US or NATO did it, it's going to cost Russia a fortune, now and later. If we did do it, I fully support it.

Russia is literally burning off gas right now because they have more than they can store.

There are plenty of pipelines. Transit fees were the whole reason for this. At the end of the day the consumer pays. Ukraine charges a significant transit fee... good way to fracture support.

There is zero reason for the US or any western country to sabotage this. No gain. Massive risk.

[xtb]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Edit) They are losing this war and are trying to play any bit of leverage they have.

How does one play leverage when it's gone?

[MargieRose]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I don't care how much people hate Trump, when he's right he's right. He's right again today.

Of course!!

Who, other than Trump, is wanting to talk PEACE? And, he's willing to, asking to negotiate it himself.

Is there anyone that would not TRUST his instincts, sincerity and ability, at this point?

[mhaney0423]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

Of course!!

Who, other than Trump, is wanting to talk PEACE? And, he's willing to, asking to negotiate it himself.

Is there anyone that would not TRUST his instincts, sincerity and ability, at this point?

I can think of one person who wouldnt!

[JustRalph]

The intercepted phone calls.........tell a grim story

Russian military is a joke

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

:Is there anyone that would not TRUST his instincts, sincerity and ability, at this point?

81,268,924 million voters.

[davew]

Originally Posted by TJDave

81,268,924 million voters.

only proves over half of the voters can be fooled by the media lies

[mhaney0423]

Originally Posted by davew

only proves over half of the voters can be fooled by the media lies

And that the other half can be duped by a charlatan!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by mhaney0423

And that the other half can be duped by a charlatan!!

Charlatan with a whole lotta "Trump Was Right" threads here...which prove he's actually more of a soothsayer when you get down to brass tacks