Religion II

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

FYI boxie,

The Sai Baba in the link Show Me posted is not the same Sai Baba I posted about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

Sathya Sai Baba (my link) claimed to be the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba (Show Me's link).

FYI boxie:

Actor's Sai Baba claims to be the same person, via reincarnation. He became Sai Baba like Peter Parker became Spider Man, stung by a a scorpion, instead of being bitten by a spider. The same soul in a different body. So logically one of them is lying. "Saint" Sai Baba, who died in 1918 did not promise to return in any form, as it was not needed. The Sai Baba Actor references contradicts the widely acknowledged "saint" Sai Baba's words and teachings by claiming to be the reincarnation of 'saint" Sai Baba.

Also, per Actor's link the deceased Sai Baba followers have spoken of his anticipated resurrection, reincarnation or awakening.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What else is needed? As they say in science textbooks "it explains all verifiable data."

It really amazes me that otherwise intelligent people do not see the obvious truth that the gospels are fiction. Sometime I may post a list of reasons that is so.

You're right, of course. The simple-minded need nothing else but their utterly naive notions to hug to their bosoms.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Yes, even for you. Perhaps especially for you. What part of deception not required do you not get?

You're selling snake oil; therefore, you are trying to deceive me. Like father (Satan) like seed (son).

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

FYI boxie:

Actor's Sai Baba claims to be the same person, via reincarnation. He became Sai Baba like Peter Parker became Spider Man, stung by a a scorpion, instead of being bitten by a spider. The same soul in a different body. So logically one of them is lying. "Saint" Sai Baba, who died in 1918 did not promise to return in any form, as it was not needed. The Sai Baba Actor references contradicts the widely acknowledged "saint" Sai Baba's words and teachings by claiming to be the reincarnation of 'saint" Sai Baba.

Also, per Actor's link the deceased Sai Baba followers have spoken of his anticipated resurrection, reincarnation or awakening.

Is this true, Actor: "Sai Baba claimes to be the same person, via reincarnation"? Do you know the difference between reincarnation and resurrection?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

FYI boxie:

Actor's Sai Baba claims to be the same person, via reincarnation. He became Sai Baba like Peter Parker became Spider Man, stung by a a scorpion, instead of being bitten by a spider. The same soul in a different body. So logically one of them is lying. "Saint" Sai Baba, who died in 1918 did not promise to return in any form, as it was not needed. The Sai Baba Actor references contradicts the widely acknowledged "saint" Sai Baba's words and teachings by claiming to be the reincarnation of 'saint" Sai Baba.

Also, per Actor's link the deceased Sai Baba followers have spoken of his anticipated resurrection, reincarnation or awakening.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like his followers are thoroughly confused, not knowing exactly what to believe per your last paragraph.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

That's rather vague. Can you be more precise? Exactly how did he fulfill Christ's said prophecy? Surely you're not going to claim that his mere arrival on the world stage is enough to fulfill the prophecy?

That and any claims to be the savior of the world. Did you guy claim to be a savior? If he did, he fulfills Christ's predictions. If he didn't, then there's nothing to worry about since Christ did, making him the real deal.

Also, are there any any sacred writings involved about your guy? If so, did any of them predict when he would make his grand entrance onto the world stage?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

That and any claims to be the savior of the world. Did you guy claim to be a savior? If he did, he fulfills Christ's predictions. If he didn't, then there's nothing to worry about since Christ did, making him the real deal.

Also, are there any any sacred writings involved about your guy? If so, did any of them predict when he would make his grand entrance onto the world stage?

You are missing the point (I think deliberately). You are presenting an argument that Sai Baba is a fake (which he definitely is) and then presenting this as evidence that your guy (Jesus) is therefore the real thing. That's the fallacy of Argument from Ignorance.

YouTube

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're selling snake oil; therefore, you are trying to deceive me. Like father (Satan) like seed (son).

Here is a (non-exhaustive) list of methods which do not require deception.

• Stockholm Syndrome - a psychological phenomenon where captives grow to identify and love their captors. One famous example is Patty Hurst. Psychologists have identified four conditions which lead to the syndrome.
  • The captive perceives some kind of threat from the captor.
  • The captive receives some small kindness from the captor.
  • The captive is isolated from any point of view other than that of the captor.
  • The captive sees no end to his/her captivity.
  
  Stockholm Syndrome is the method by which religion survives. It is no accident that most Christians (or any other religion) are indoctrinated as children. Consider the four condions:
  
  • Perception of a threat. The child is told that he will burn in hell if he does not accept Jesus.
  • Small kindness. They serve cake and cookies at Sunday School. And the sing Jesus Loves the Little Children which makes the kiddies feel good (although as a child I do not think I understood the meaning of the song).
  • Isolation from other points of view. Of course other points of view are not tolerated. This is why Atheists are the most hated group in America. (source: PEW Research).
  • No end to the situation. Of course. The non-religious are ostracized. Do children ever see their situation as coming to an end? Of course they do anticipate growing up but Mommy and Daddy still go to church.
  
  So how do you counter Stockholm Syndrome? The most widely publicized method is deprogramming (unfortunately). Even there the object is usually to substitute one religion for another. Deprogramming techniques are similar to Stockholm Syndrome (dare I say "identical to?"). However, while deprogramming is probably illegal and immoral it is a method which does not require deception.
• The Cat and the Button - there was an experiment decades ago where researchers trained a cat to press a button in return for food. The researchers then implanted an electric probe into the pleasure centers of the cat's brain and connected the button to the probe. When the cat pressed the button it would get a hit of pure pleasure.
  
  When I took psychology in college we were shown a movie about brain surgery. A patient underwent brain surgery to remove a life threatening tumor. The tumor was located near the pleasure center and inevitably the surgeon hit the pleasure center.
  
  Patient - "Do that again."
  
  Surgeon - "Do what?"
  
  Patient - "Whatever you did."
  
  Surgeon - "This?"
  
  Patient - "Yes! Yes! That feels good."
  
  Surgeon - "Where?"
  
  Patient - "I don't know."
  
  The patient later described the feeling as "the greatest orgasm I've ever had in my life multiplied by a million."
  
  Back to the cat. The cat would not do anything but press the button, even after the probe was removed.
  
  In addition to a pleasure center there is also a depression center in the brain. If two probes were implanted in a person's brain, one for pleasure, one for depression, and rigged with a radio receiver so that either could be activated remotely then his handler could give him either pleasure or depression at will. If he became depressed in all religious situations and found pleasure in non-religious activity then he would cease to believe in God. The would work best if he were unaware of his implants, a requirement that again is probably illegal and immoral.
• Surgery - This is my favorite. The brain has a religion center and neurologists know where it is. If this region were surgically removed the patient would cease to care about religion one way or the other. Not giving a damn he would see how illogical religion is.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You are missing the point (I think deliberately). You are presenting an argument that Sai Baba is a fake (which he definitely is) and then presenting this as evidence that your guy (Jesus) is therefore the real thing. That's the fallacy of Argument from Ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqjB31xiE9k

No, I haven't. First of all, there are numerous OT prophecies predicting the JEWISH messiah. How many prophecies about SB are there?

Secondly, Jesus predicted that false Christs (messiahs) would come into the world. And there are numerous ways a Christian can tell if one is fraud beginning with the test "by their fruits you shall know them...".

Thirdly, the time of Jesus' first advent was prophesied in Daniel 9. How 'bout SB's arrival onto the world stage?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Here is a (non-exhaustive) list of methods which do not require deception.

• Stockholm Syndrome - a psychological phenomenon where captives grow to identify and love their captors. One famous example is Patty Hurst. Psychologists have identified four conditions which lead to the syndrome.
  • The captive perceives some kind of threat from the captor.
  • The captive receives some small kindness from the captor.
  • The captive is isolated from any point of view other than that of the captor.
  • The captive sees no end to his/her captivity.
  
  Stockholm Syndrome is the method by which religion survives. It is no accident that most Christians (or any other religion) are indoctrinated as children. Consider the four condions:
  
  • Perception of a threat. The child is told that he will burn in hell if he does not accept Jesus.
  • Small kindness. They serve cake and cookies at Sunday School. And the sing Jesus Loves the Little Children which makes the kiddies feel good (although as a child I do not think I understood the meaning of the song).
  • Isolation from other points of view. Of course other points of view are not tolerated. This is why Atheists are the most hated group in America. (source: PEW Research).
  • No end to the situation. Of course. The non-religious are ostracized. Do children ever see their situation as coming to an end? Of course they do anticipate growing up but Mommy and Daddy still go to church.
  
  So how do you counter Stockholm Syndrome? The most widely publicized method is deprogramming (unfortunately). Even there the object is usually to substitute one religion for another. Deprogramming techniques are similar to Stockholm Syndrome (dare I say "identical to?"). However, while deprogramming is probably illegal and immoral it is a method which does not require deception.
• The Cat and the Button - there was an experiment decades ago where researchers trained a cat to press a button in return for food. The researchers then implanted an electric probe into the pleasure centers of the cat's brain and connected the button to the probe. When the cat pressed the button it would get a hit of pure pleasure.
  
  When I took psychology in college we were shown a movie about brain surgery. A patient underwent brain surgery to remove a life threatening tumor. The tumor was located near the pleasure center and inevitably the surgeon hit the pleasure center.
  
  Patient - "Do that again."
  
  Surgeon - "Do what?"
  
  Patient - "Whatever you did."
  
  Surgeon - "This?"
  
  Patient - "Yes! Yes! That feels good."
  
  Surgeon - "Where?"
  
  Patient - "I don't know."
  
  The patient later described the feeling as "the greatest orgasm I've ever had in my life multiplied by a million."
  
  Back to the cat. The cat would not do anything but press the button, even after the probe was removed.
  
  In addition to a pleasure center there is also a depression center in the brain. If two probes were implanted in a person's brain, one for pleasure, one for depression, and rigged with a radio receiver so that either could be activated remotely then his handler could give him either pleasure or depression at will. If he became depressed in all religious situations and found pleasure in non-religious activity then he would cease to believe in God. The would work best if he were unaware of his implants, a requirement that again is probably illegal and immoral.
• Surgery - This is my favorite. The brain has a religion center and neurologists know where it is. If this region were surgically removed the patient would cease to care about religion one way or the other. Not giving a damn he would see how illogical religion is.

Yeah...well if that's the only way to show how illogical religion is by removing part of the brain's "circuitry", then we know that atheism is in very deep trouble. This is like saying, if we castrate all males, they would cease to care a whit about sex and see what a waste of valuable time pursuing that activity is.

As far as your lame Stockholm Syndrome is, it doesn't apply to Christianity because our "captor" is not a captor but a Savior who sets his people free from their bondage to sin. The Savior plunders the "strong man's" house (Satan's) to rescue God's elect from the devil's dominion.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, I haven't. First of all, there are numerous OT prophecies predicting the JEWISH messiah. How many prophecies about SB are there?

So what? There have always been prophecies of messiahs and others. And there always will be so long as religion reigns. To say that there are/were prophecies about fill-in-the-blank is no great feat.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Secondly, Jesus predicted that false Christs (messiahs) would come into the world.

Nothing new. Same answer.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

So what? There have always been prophecies of messiahs and others. And there always will be so long as religion reigns. To say that there are/were prophecies about fill-in-the-blank is no great feat.
Nothing new. Same answer.

So...where are all the prophecies about SB? Are there any prophecies about when he would make his grand entrance into the world?

Btw, all the prophecies about Jesus' first advent have been fulfilled. How 'bout with your boy SB?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

As far as your lame Stockholm Syndrome is, it doesn't apply to Christianity because our "captor" is not a captor but a Savior who sets his people free from their bondage to sin.

That's what they want you to think. See the part about isolation from other points of view. It's all about mind control.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...well if that's the only way to show how illogical religion is by removing part of the brain's "circuitry", then we know that atheism is in very deep trouble.

It's religion that's in deep trouble. If atheism were a religion then it's the second fastest growing religion in the world behind Islam, and Islam is growing only because (1)they are fanatically anti-birth control, and (2)they kill apostates, meaning that few atheists from Muslim countries ever come out of the closet.

Psycho surgery to cure one of the disease of religion would be a drastic approach. Fortunately it does not seem necessary. As I pointed out, atheism is growing quite well without it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

This is like saying, if we castrate all males, they would cease to care a whit about sex and see what a waste of valuable time pursuing that activity is.

Vasectomies would be preferable to castration because the sex drive remains unaltered. That would get rid of unplanned pregnancies and the problem of abortions. I think that in the near future nearly all vasectomies will reversible so a couple that wants a child can have one. Better yet, it may be possible to harvest sperm from a male with a vasectomy for in vitro fertilization. The biggest problem with the so-called sex-on-demand culture is STDs which I am certain medical science will eliminate sooner or later.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

That's what they want you to think. See the part about isolation from other points of view.

Who are your "they"?

It's all about mind control.

Just like the kind you boasted about and in favor of, right? Just "disconnect" the "religious center" of the brain and you have your control, right?

It's religion that's in deep trouble. If atheism were a religion then it's the second fastest growing religion in the world behind Islam, and Islam is growing only because (1)they are fanatically anti-birth control, and (2)they kill apostates, meaning that few atheists from Muslim countries ever come out of the closet.

Looks like the Muslims have their own form of "mind control".

Psycho surgery to cure one of the disease of religion would be a drastic approach. Fortunately it does not seem necessary. As I pointed out, atheism is growing quite well without it.
Vasectomies would be preferable to castration because the sex drive remains unaltered. That would get rid of unplanned pregnancies and the problem of abortions. I think that in the near future nearly all vasectomies will reversible so a couple that wants a child can have one. Better yet, it may be possible to harvest sperm from a male with a vasectomy for in vitro fertilization. The biggest problem with the so-called sex-on-demand culture is STDs which I am certain medical science will eliminate sooner or later.

Maybe in the near future, they'll freeze severed gonads until they get ready to sew them back on again...

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Who are your "they"?

Whoever indoctrinated you. And "they" are yours, not mine. You'll recall from my post in Religion I that my "they" failed. I did not assimilate.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Just like the kind you boasted about and in favor of, right? Just "disconnect" the "religious center" of the brain and you have your control, right?

Right!

Originally Posted by boxcar

Looks like the Muslims have their own form of "mind control".

Indeed! Kind of hard to argue with "believe as I believe or I'll cut your head off." Severed heads do not have minds.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Maybe in the near future, they'll freeze severed gonads until they get ready to sew them back on again...

That would be a complex, risky and expensive procedure to accomplish a simple end. The best way would be to have the boys masturbate into a cup as soon as they reach puberty and freeze the semen. Of course the problem would be that a few would manage to get a girl pregnant before they had the big V. But then that would be so infrequent that it could be tolerated.