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04-28-2018, 12:41 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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So you want to use raw times in handicapping
Belmont Race #4
Look at the favorite Take Your Guns, his last race is listed as follows:
March 25 Race 11
:23.30 :46.70 1:10.10 1:37.40 in the Brisnet PP.
Same Race by Trackus:
March 25 Race 11:
:25.03 :47.31 1:11.58 1:39.13
I really do not care who the official timer is, the question is can you believe either one of them?
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04-28-2018, 01:00 PM
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#2
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay68802
Belmont Race #4
Look at the favorite Take Your Guns, his last race is listed as follows:
March 25 Race 11
:23.30 :46.70 1:10.10 1:37.40 in the Brisnet PP.
Same Race by Trackus:
March 25 Race 11:
:25.03 :47.31 1:11.58 1:39.13
I really do not care who the official timer is, the question is can you believe either one of them?
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What is the track variant?
Mike
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04-28-2018, 01:08 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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These are the raw times, neither company lists adjusted times. All other races on that day match.
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04-28-2018, 01:12 PM
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#4
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NEW YORK CITY
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay68802
These are the raw times, neither company lists adjusted times. All other races on that day match.
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DAMMM!!!
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04-28-2018, 01:17 PM
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#5
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crusty old guy
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Snarkytown USA
Posts: 3,909
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It would be interesting to see the pace/speed figures from the different vendors for that race.
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04-28-2018, 01:28 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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Bris has pace and speed figures of:
E1....E2....LP....SF
78....95....94....94
Do not have any others.
One more thing to point out. All the times are nice even numbers according to Bris in their chart. Is that even possible? I do not believe it is.
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04-28-2018, 01:46 PM
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#7
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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109 Speed Figure from TimeformUS. I do have the race marked with a 't' in our PPs for timing problems.
Beyer gave the race an 88, which equates to about a 108 on my stuff.
That Beyer figure equates to about a 95 BRIS rating.
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04-28-2018, 01:46 PM
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#8
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
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I was doing some research yesterday, trying to verify that the distance run changes when the temp rail is moved outside, or if it doesn't.
I was looking 8.5 mile turf races at Belmont with the rail at 0 and at 27 feet.
October 8, race #1 - Trakus times are 2-3 seconds slower than the charts or the PPs!
But the really neat one I came across was the Saranac at Saratoga last year - no internal fractions at all, but....Wait! There's MORE!
BRIS has pace figures for the race!
I think I will just not even bother watching races today - maybe forever.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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04-28-2018, 01:48 PM
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#9
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesal57
What is the track variant?
Mike
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18 and 38.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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04-28-2018, 01:51 PM
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#10
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Trakus is the official timer for Gulfstream, so any official times come from them. They obviously adjusted the time after the fact, but I guess they didn't bother to adjust there charts. The 1:37 time is definitely more in line with reality than the 1:39 time. This rang a bell so I looked it up, thought I remembered tweeting about this race:
Last edited by cj; 04-28-2018 at 01:53 PM.
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04-28-2018, 01:55 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Trakus is the official timer for Gulfstream, so any official times come from them. They obviously adjusted the time after the fact, but I guess they didn't bother to adjust there charts. The 1:37 time is definitely more in line with reality than the 1:39 time. This rang a bell so I looked it up, thought I remembered tweeting about this race:
https://twitter.com/TimeformUSfigs/s...70057683329024
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1:39 is a very slow time for GP at the distance. All the times for Bris are in nice even tenths, which tells me that it is probably just a best guess.
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04-28-2018, 01:57 PM
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#12
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Trakus is a goat rope on a lot of fronts.
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04-28-2018, 02:12 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Trakus is a goat rope on a lot of fronts.
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The reason for the company is to be able to watch the little "chicklets" on the TV, and to provide information to "racing insiders".
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04-28-2018, 02:22 PM
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#14
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay68802
The reason for the company is to be able to watch the little "chicklets" on the TV, and to provide information to "racing insiders".
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They certainly shouldn't be the official timer of anything. It simply isn't accurate even when it works. And they have way more malfunctions than the beam system ever does.
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04-28-2018, 02:41 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
They certainly shouldn't be the official timer of anything. It simply isn't accurate even when it works. And they have way more malfunctions than the beam system ever does.
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I recently went to the U of Nebraska for a tour with my son. They had a segment where the seniors were showing their projects to every one. The most interesting one that I saw was a little 1x1 inch square box. You could carry this around any where with you, and at the end of the day you could plug it in to a computer and it would tell you your average walking speed, or how many steps you took. Whatever you programmed this box to record, it would. I thought this is what they should use. Sync it with the starting gate, and the beams they use for fractions. You would not be able to use it for on screen times, but the times would be recorded and at the end of the day or race you could download the info for each horse. The technology is there for horse racing to use, they just refuse to do it.
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