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06-13-2018, 11:53 AM
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I give zero shits about the high road when it comes to realpolitik.
You're the one lumping Trump and Obama here together not me.
I'm perfectly content to let Syria keep burning and to have planes, tanks, and bombs on both sides of the DMZ.
If something remarkable happens I am fully prepared to give Trump all his just praise. He's getting it even from me if everything falls apart at this exact moment. Though I getting sense from his supporters around here what we consider a policy victory are going to be very different. He is already framing a withdrawal form the Peninsula as a win. I don't. China does.
He did actually. There is no way to deny that. We can argue whether the ends justified the means until the cows come home but Trump Administration officials even admit Iran was complying with the nuclear deal. This is not a subject open for debate.
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We're not taking about Syria. We're talking about NK.
When someone doesn't understand the great fundamental value and strength to positioning himself (and by extension America) into a win-win situation, then I don't believe we have anything more to talk about, sir. Trump can only WIN with his goodwill gesture. I can explain this to you, but I can't make you understand it. 
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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06-13-2018, 01:24 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
We're not taking about Syria. We're talking about NK.
When someone doesn't understand the great fundamental value and strength to positioning himself (and by extension America) into a win-win situation, then I don't believe we have anything more to talk about, sir. Trump can only WIN with his goodwill gesture. I can explain this to you, but I can't make you understand it. |
The DMZ comment was the Korean one.
Its not a win-win. It sends a message we will back out of agreements with our allies over mutual security situations without even consulting them. For "goodwill" purposes and because they're expensive. That is bad... bad, bad, bad.
The real "goodwill" if we want to talk about it was even showing up in the first place. After the North Koreans through a hissy fit about... guess what? Joint Military Exercises.
Guess we can take that off the table now. 
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-13-2018 at 01:28 PM.
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06-13-2018, 01:46 PM
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocala Mike
I served as an advisor to the ROKAF while in the USAF during the 60's. Don't know what it's like now, but back then the Joint Military Exercises were extremely essential to our training mission.
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I guess other things take priority today.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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06-13-2018, 01:51 PM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I guess other things take priority today. |
John Bolton even looks like Amos Slade!!!! 
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-13-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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06-13-2018, 02:26 PM
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
The DMZ comment was the Korean one.
Its not a win-win. It sends a message we will back out of agreements with our allies over mutual security situations without even consulting them. For "goodwill" purposes and because they're expensive. That is bad... bad, bad, bad.
The real "goodwill" if we want to talk about it was even showing up in the first place. After the North Koreans through a hissy fit about... guess what? Joint Military Exercises.
Guess we can take that off the table now. |
That's how you interpret it. The carrot is not etched in stone. IT'S CONDITIONAL. Therefore, it's a win-win.
Plus...this is Trump's show. The allies get to sit on the sidelines and watch.
Don't forget: Our allies need the U.S. much more than we need them.
Feel free to take your place under the table. Perhaps someone will feed you with scraps of true wisdom occasionally.
And I thought you were so very concerned about our debt? You had an elephant when Trump cut taxes over the debt. But when he makes a move that could save us lots of money, it's bad, bad, bad.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
Last edited by boxcar; 06-13-2018 at 02:28 PM.
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06-13-2018, 02:42 PM
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
That's how you interpret it. The carrot is not etched in stone. IT'S CONDITIONAL.
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On what?
North Korea remaining committed to the denuclearization of the peninsula? Same thing they've been saying since 1992? Or was it 1986?
Based on the rest of your post this is cool with you?
Quote:
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Ultimately NK and China want the United States off of the Korean Peninsula. The North Koreans may actually be able to get that in exchange for getting rid of their weapons. Trump would probably take that deal as it "brings the troops home and '#MAGA.'" I have very little doubt Kim would take that deal. He will be lauded as kicking the imperialist Americans off the Peninsula without firing a shot and a hero invited to every single Chinese Dinner Party his fat ass can walk to.
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He didn't get any sort of tangible concession. He got words. I say that's dumb. You say its goodwill. I say they don't deserve goodwill... we can end there.
It's where I'm taking a harder line against North Korea than you and your president are.
The rest is your usual smoke and mirrors stuff. Show me one post on here where I've taken issue with military spending. I'll wait.
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06-13-2018, 03:23 PM
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
On what?
North Korea remaining committed to the denuclearization of the peninsula? Same thing they've been saying since 1992? Or was it 1986?
Based on the rest of your post this is cool with you?
He didn't get any sort of tangible concession. He got words. I say that's dumb. You say its goodwill. I say they don't deserve goodwill... we can end there.
It's where I'm taking a harder line against North Korea than you and your president are.
The rest is your usual smoke and mirrors stuff. Show me one post on here where I've taken issue with military spending. I'll wait.
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Knowing Trump, I would say it was conditioned on some concrete action by Rocket Man. If the little guy doesn't produce in a reasonable amount of time , the carrot is withdrawn. As I said...nothing ventured, nothing gained.
This isn't the prelude to Armageddon that you seem to think it is. Nor is the sky falling.
Try to sleep well tonight...
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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06-13-2018, 03:30 PM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Knowing Trump, I would say it was conditioned on some concrete action by Rocket Man. If the little guy doesn't produce in a reasonable amount of time , the carrot is withdrawn. As I said...nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Then why not put both of those in the agreement you signed...?
Or did they pinky swear because that's super legit.
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06-13-2018, 03:32 PM
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Then why not put both of those in the agreement you signed...?
Or did they pinky swear? |
Because it's merely a preliminary goodwill gesture. It's bait on the hook. As I said earlier: If Rocket Man doesn't bite, Trump reels in his line and goes home.
Nothing ventured, nothing lost.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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06-13-2018, 03:48 PM
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#70
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Give up, Boxie...don't you know that nothing can ever be done about anything?
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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06-13-2018, 03:56 PM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Because it's merely a preliminary goodwill gesture. It's bait on the hook. As I said earlier: If Rocket Man doesn't bite, Trump reels in his line and goes home.
Nothing ventured, nothing lost.
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Yeah... so...
I'm taking a harder line with the North Koreans than Trump is... got it.
This is all your logic by the way. I still maintain that this was a mistake and a honest slip-up.
If you agree to something you write it down and sign it.... surely a real estate tycoon would know that right? 
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06-13-2018, 04:01 PM
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Give up, Boxie...don't you know that nothing can ever be done about anything?
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I made it very clear what I would have done.
It sure as **** wasn't "goodwill gestures" without consulting my allies and generals or any sort of commitment in writing from the North Koreans.
8 months ago you guys were all bomb them to oblivion because Trump was. Now you are all "goodwill gestures," "bait the hook," etc.
Its hilarious that you all lack original thought.
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-13-2018 at 04:03 PM.
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06-13-2018, 04:29 PM
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#73
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Quote:
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8 months ago you guys were all bomb them to oblivion because Trump was. Now you are all "goodwill gestures," "bait the hook," etc.
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Not me. Never said a word about good will gestures.
We are probably at the handshake stage now because we went through the bomb him to oblivion stage. The negotiations this time are not the same as they have been.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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06-13-2018, 04:58 PM
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Not me. Never said a word about good will gestures.
We are probably at the handshake stage now because we went through the bomb him to oblivion stage. The negotiations this time are not the same as they have been.
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We agree? 
This is different and we'll see what happens.
All gonna fall on Pompeo now. He does have aspirations for the presidency so I guess that's a plus.
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06-13-2018, 05:37 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Yeah... so...
I'm taking a harder line with the North Koreans than Trump is... got it.
This is all your logic by the way. I still maintain that this was a mistake and a honest slip-up.
If you agree to something you write it down and sign it.... surely a real estate tycoon would know that right? |
Sometimes you win more with honey than vinegar. Hard lines can always follower softer ones; but softer ones coming after harder ones are a wee bit tougher to pull off.
You're very long (and boring) on rhetoric but quite short on wisdom.
Oh yeah...nearly forgot: You're stuck on the writing thingy. What you forget is that Trump is not legally or even morally committed to anything with Rocket Man -- just like the little guy committed to nothing in writing either. This keeps any future dialog fluid.
Sleep well tonight.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
Last edited by boxcar; 06-13-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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