Whales

[porchy44]

Do the "whales" have computer models for Harness Racing ?
If not, why not ?

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Do the "whales" have computer models for Harness Racing ?
If not, why not ?

Good question. No reason they wouldn't, 'cept the boys might go the other way on them at every opportunity

[AlsoEligible]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Do the "whales" have computer models for Harness Racing ?
If not, why not ?

I don't know of any that are playing harness. Not sure it's profitable enough to bother with.

The models used for thoroughbred racing take years to develop and perfect. Lots of hours and money poured into analyzing past data, crunching numbers, and coming up with a system that works.

They'd essentially have to go through that process all over again for harness, and there's just not enough pool liquidity to make it worthwhile. I don't think they mess with greyhounds either, for the same reasoning.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by AlsoEligible

I don't know of any that are playing harness. Not sure it's profitable enough to bother with.

The models used for thoroughbred racing take years to develop and perfect. Lots of hours and money poured into analyzing past data, crunching numbers, and coming up with a system that works.

They'd essentially have to go through that process all over again for harness, and there's just not enough pool liquidity to make it worthwhile. I don't think they mess with greyhounds either, for the same reasoning.

Dana Parham.

[BCOURTNEY]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Love this stuff.

Wonderful beginning for a programmer's discussion. (Another thread, maybe.)

It definitely is about bottlenecks, both in the software but also communications.

Thank you.

Asynchronous messaging and storage patterns. They work.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by BCOURTNEY

Asynchronous messaging and storage patterns. They work.

What a great discussion. Thank you.

LOL

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Dana Parham.

Interesting, just watched an interview of him from 2017 where he said he was bought out by his partner in his betting operation.

[green80]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Do the "whales" have computer models for Harness Racing ?
If not, why not ?

There simply aren't big enough pools at most harness racetracks to interest them. The amounts the bet is too large and would reduce their winning payouts by too much to make it profitable.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

Interesting, just watched an interview of him from 2017 where he said he was bought out by his partner in his betting operation.

I have no idea about what and who is current, but he always talked about his history in harness.

[steveb]

Originally Posted by AlsoEligible

I don't know of any that are playing harness. Not sure it's profitable enough to bother with.

The models used for thoroughbred racing take years to develop and perfect. Lots of hours and money poured into analyzing past data, crunching numbers, and coming up with a system that works.

They'd essentially have to go through that process all over again for harness, and there's just not enough pool liquidity to make it worthwhile. I don't think they mess with greyhounds either, for the same reasoning.

i dunno about harness, but there is one mob that had a generic model, they tweaked and used profitably for dogs, but this was 6 or 7 years back, so don't know if it's still going.

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by green80

There simply aren't big enough pools at most harness racetracks to interest them. The amounts the bet is too large and would reduce their winning payouts by too much to make it profitable.

Can you explain who is doing all that late betting at MNR where the FINAL pool is rarely over 25,000


I'd think major harness tracks do more than that .

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I have no idea about what and who is current, but he always talked about his history in harness.

Yeah, sounds like he was one of the $300mil/year players you've mentioned. From the interview, sounds like his group is still after it, his partner just bought him out circa 2016. They'd have to be betting in all thoroughbreds and harness to wager that much though, right?

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by steveb

i dunno about harness, but there is one mob that had a generic model, they tweaked and used profitably for dogs, but this was 6 or 7 years back, so don't know if it's still going.

Speaking for my own model, the most predictive features that I have come up with would be usable in any racing form, so long as some of the "standard" data is available - things like time, distance, finish position, post position, etc.

With regards to what market big players are in, I'd be very surprised if these big players aren't in all thoroughbred/standardbred/dog/etc races all over the world, so long as their models are predictive. For a team of good programmers, switching between different locals/types of racing shouldn't be prohibitive, and coming up with predictive features should be fairly similar across all of them.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

Yeah, sounds like he was one of the $300mil/year players you've mentioned. From the interview, sounds like his group is still after it, his partner just bought him out circa 2016. They'd have to be betting in all thoroughbreds and harness to wager that much though, right?

I really have never heard harness discussed except in that old interview with Dana Parham that was on YouTube at one time.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I really have never heard harness discussed except in that old interview with Dana Parham that was on YouTube at one time.

YouTube (Short URL)