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Old 09-20-2018, 11:26 AM   #31
ReplayRandall
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What I was trying to say. Is that Thaskalos is probably showing a profit, while those who don't think he is smart are probably losing a significant amount of money on other forms of gambling.
Aaron, I knew what you meant, I was just having a little fun with Gus...
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:50 AM   #32
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I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:59 AM   #33
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Aaron, I knew what you meant, I was just having a little fun with Gus...
Didn't want anyone to think,I was disparaging them.
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #34
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The only "exaggeration" of yours that I've been able to notice on this board is your estimation of what you YOURSELF have contributed to our handicapping discussions here. Unless you consider your endless touting of your Hong Kong "betting prowess" to be the sort of 'optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game' that you seem to crave. According to my memory, the only time that you ever endeavored to give us a realistic and "constructive" demonstration here...your Hong Kong betting presentation went so horribly awry that you brought the experiment to a sudden and unceremonious end...and you hid away in embarrassment for a considerable amount of time...only to return here when you thought that we had forgotten about your prior wagering debacle.

Spare me the smart-alecky remarks about any "optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game", friend...we all know that you have nothing of substance to offer about the game here. Why don't you confine yourself to the selections forum...where you can bore people to tears with your "ultra-sophisticated" Hong Kong exotic selections. And, if you should ever feel the need to prove to yourself how truly ignorant you are about the game...then take me on in a little handicapping contest...and I promise to put you in your place in short order. Any track in the land would be fine with me.
I guess I struck a nerve, because your response is completely out of context to what I was referring to and suddenly directed at me. How convenient! I suppose you would also like us to believe that this thread is about “handicapping”. LOL

I certainly wouldn’t want to offer much in the way of handicapping advice anyway because as you know I gave that up quite a while ago. But your description based on a piss-poor memory (I might add) sure makes my little Dutching demonstration look like some more of the negative commentary that you seem relish. If you even followed it at all you might have noticed that the only controversy at the time was my use of the HK odds versus the US equivalent with a 1-point deduction. So, if that in your mind constitutes “horribly awry” then I would put it once again in your “exaggeration” category. My little hiatus from the PA forum had absolutely nothing to do with that thread.

What do you mean “we all know”? So, now you’re speaking for the entire group of PA members? You got some pair buddy! As far as offering anything goes, when was the last time you offered a selection or two?

BTW it sounds like your “OK Coral” mentality is a result of watching too many Westerns. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. As far as my ignorance goes, I probably should have let this rebuttal go, but I wasn’t about to let your incendiary remarks go unchallenged. Besides as I said, you seem to delight in these sort of things. So enjoy!
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:01 PM   #35
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I guess I struck a nerve, because your response is completely out of context to what I was referring to and suddenly directed at me. How convenient! I suppose you would also like us to believe that this thread is about “handicapping”. LOL

I certainly wouldn’t want to offer much in the way of handicapping advice anyway because as you know I gave that up quite a while ago. But your description based on a piss-poor memory (I might add) sure makes my little Dutching demonstration look like some more of the negative commentary that you seem relish. If you even followed it at all you might have noticed that the only controversy at the time was my use of the HK odds versus the US equivalent with a 1-point deduction. So, if that in your mind constitutes “horribly awry” then I would put it once again in your “exaggeration” category. My little hiatus from the PA forum had absolutely nothing to do with that thread.

What do you mean “we all know”? So, now you’re speaking for the entire group of PA members? You got some pair buddy! As far as offering anything goes, when was the last time you offered a selection or two?

BTW it sounds like your “OK Coral” mentality is a result of watching too many Westerns. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. As far as my ignorance goes, I probably should have let this rebuttal go, but I wasn’t about to let your incendiary remarks go unchallenged. Besides as I said, you seem to delight in these sort of things. So enjoy!
Yes...yes...a very typically predictable response.

My "OK Coral mentality" comes in handy, pal...because it puts a quick end to any argument where the occasional poster here might bring my "love" of this game, or my dedication to it, into question. That's the great thing about horseracing forums; there is a "theory", AND a "practice" component to them. This helps in separating the "practitioners" from the 'theorists' around here...when our discussions take a "personal" turn.

Run along now, back to your Hong Kong selection threads...so you -- who have nothing to prove here -- can continue to enlighten us with your brilliant wager-construction. Just don't start betting in the neighborhood of $450 a race again, lest you make another few thousand dollars disappear in record time...causing you to go on another "unrelated" hiatus.

And, I think I owe you an apology for mentioning your "ignorance" about this game. At least you had the sense to refuse my "OK Coral" invitation. Smart move.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:23 PM   #36
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This is what specifically bugs me. I live in the heart of thoroughbred country (Lexington) yet people rarely discuss racing at all.
I just got back from my 1st trip to Saratoga and was in heaven as everywhere I went, and I'm not exaggerating , people asked "are you going to the track?" or "how did you do today?"
I would love it if for once I could just have racing discussions with people who actually care about the sport in person. You would think Kentucky might be one of those places .Not so. Even during the Keeneland meets its all about what to wear, who you are with, .....sick of it. I feel like I'm in a rowboat out in the middle of the ocean.
Pace Advantage and Paulick Report are the only things keeping me sane.
jahura2 don't feel so alone. When Saratoga isn't running there's almost no talk of horse racing in the area. I know lots of people that go to Saratoga and they think I'm crazy for popping down to Belmont or the Big A the rest of the year.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:46 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!
Ding-ding-ding. We have a winner, at least in my opinion.

At Canterbury the simulcast betters used to number in the dozens, now it is much less. Yes some have died, some have gotten too old to drive.

I can only bet live racing on track. but now bet mostly at home and avoid the 45 minute drive.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:01 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by chiguy View Post
I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!
I used to think the same thing...but a rather recent development caused me to change my mind. A couple years ago, an oversight by the Illinois lawmen cause ADW wagering to be rendered ILLEGAL in Illinois, and this travesty went on for a couple of months(I think) before it was finally remedied. During that time, I would go to the more popular OTBs on a daily basis...to see if this ADW illegality would lead to a bigger crowd gathered there. I mean...wouldn't an ADW customer opt to visit an OTB in order to place his wagers, instead of waiting for MONTHS for ADW wagering to become legal again? To my great surprise, the OTB clientele in the Chicagoland area were as sparse as they had ever been...ADW or no ADW. It made me think that the ADW crowd might not be as large as we imagine it to be.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:08 PM   #39
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I used to think the same thing...but a rather recent development caused me to change my mind. A couple years ago, an oversight by the Illinois lawmen cause ADW wagering to be rendered ILLEGAL in Illinois, and this travesty went on for a couple of months(I think) before it was finally remedied. During that time, I would go to the more popular OTBs on a daily basis...to see if this ADW illegality would lead to a bigger crowd gathered there. I mean...wouldn't an ADW customer opt to visit an OTB in order to place his wagers, instead of waiting for MONTHS for ADW wagering to become legal again? To my great surprise, the OTB clientele in the Chicagoland area were as sparse as they had ever been...ADW or no ADW. It made me think that the ADW crowd might not be as large as we imagine it to be.
This doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.

The OTBs I've seen in person aren't terribly hospitable places to spend an afternoon. A couple exceptions...the OTBs at Del Mar (Surfside) and up in Ventura, CA are big and clean (though pretty plain).
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:10 PM   #40
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I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!
I think you had the right idea. Too bad it didn't work out. Fortunately, I have had the opposite experience in my life. Back in Jr. High, like all pre-teens, I hated all things mathematical. Then one day my mom took me to the track (Aqueduct) and I discovered the racing form and learned that numbers (speed figures) could tell things about horses and racing - my 2 great loves in life. They could also tell me all kinds of stuff about people and everything else. I was hooked for life and ended up years later doing graduate work in and teaching statistics and research methods. I guess one has to love racing to begin with for it to work.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:17 PM   #41
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This doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.

The OTBs I've seen in person aren't terribly hospitable places to spend an afternoon. A couple exceptions...the OTBs at Del Mar (Surfside) and up in Ventura, CA are big and clean (though pretty plain).
I remember the OTB parlors in NYC (before it went bankrupt) tended to be rather sleazy places, with some exceptions, depending on the neighborhood.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:07 PM   #42
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Oh Zippy please don’t take my comments personally. I certainly wouldn’t want to deter you from introducing so many thought provoking and enlightening topics. I hope you won’t mind if I pass on posting on those which I find so thoroughly uninformative as they pertain to the game itself.
I agree w/this. Board getting hard to read
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:32 AM   #43
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the only time that you ever endeavored to give us a realistic and "constructive" demonstration here...your Hong Kong betting presentation went so horribly awry that you brought the experiment to a sudden and unceremonious end...and you hid away in embarrassment for a considerable amount of time...only to return here when you thought that we had forgotten about your prior wagering debacle.
wow. I guess you don't read the selections topics much.

If people knew that their picks, which I assume they post in order to help other horseplayers (not a chest-beating one-upmanship exercise)
, were being scrutinized to the point where if they didn't show huge profits, and/or winning picks, that they should somehow be embarassed about it........ then I doubt they'd be posting 'em.

The best topic on this board (IMHO) is probably the longshot play along topic. That is where I was posting when I first came here, and the reason I joined. I will probably just go back to that mostly, beccause it's a place where horse players actually congratulate each other when they win, there's a whole lot of comraderie, and nobody has EVER made a snide remark about anyone's picks in that topic.

I haven't seen any of Nitro's wagers, I have only seen his topics on the positives of horse racing in Hong Kong, and why it is better for bettors in so many ways (and that is true). If anything, he is sharing and introducing a positive experience to share with others, i.e. that they might enjoy it.

And, perhaps he is right about Zippy Chippy. Really, it's a downer reading his topics, there is never anything positive or uplifting about them at all.

I have been too busy lately to follow my virtual stable, but if I have a horse I think might be a $30 winner, I would post it up,..........not to be right, but to help other players make a few bucks. I thought that was the whole point of a forum? That, and to discuss races for angles, etc. and ways we can not only improve our ROI, but to improve the game/sport overall???

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Old 09-21-2018, 01:45 AM   #44
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I just got back from my 1st trip to Saratoga and was in heaven as everywhere I went, and I'm not exaggerating , people asked "are you going to the track?" or "how did you do today?"
It's a boutqiue meet. Nobody would otherwise BE in Saratoga (except hikers and campers maybe) if there wasn't a horse racing meet.

DURING that meet, it becomes a "horse racing town". That's also the entire economic "windfall" for a town that is normally rural and somewhat economically depressed. Believe me, normal people who live there aren't having $18 martinis at those tony bar restaurants in January. They are depending on the deep pocket metro / urban types to come and spend.


Oaklawn is similar in the way boutique meets are, to an extent.. It's always been a horse racing town historically, but during the meet (which is longer than SAR) it is not unusual to go on a big race Saturday and there are 30K people there. You go in waffle house and people are reading DRF, etc. The rest of the town in a way also lives around the racing season, too, because the traffic on Central Ave.. is so bad in front of the racetrack on weekends, everyone not into racing plans their errands for different days or takes an alternate route. People move here in retirement just to enjoy the national parks and horse racing.

You can't really say the same about tracks that run mostly year round. It's just not the same. And many of them are in kinda dangerous run down areas, etc.

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Old 09-21-2018, 02:32 AM   #45
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It's a boutqiue meet. Nobody would otherwise BE in Saratoga (except hikers and campers maybe) if there wasn't a horse racing meet.

DURING that meet, it becomes a "horse racing town". That's also the entire economic "windfall" for a town that is normally rural and somewhat economically depressed. Believe me, normal people who live there aren't having $18 martinis at those tony bar restaurants in January. They are depending on the deep pocket metro / urban types to come and spend.


Oaklawn is similar in the way boutique meets are, to an extent.. It's always been a horse racing town historically, but during the meet (which is longer than SAR) it is not unusual to go on a big race Saturday and there are 30K people there. You go in waffle house and people are reading DRF, etc. The rest of the town in a way also lives around the racing season, too, because the traffic on Central Ave.. is so bad in front of the racetrack on weekends, everyone not into racing plans their errands for different days or takes an alternate route. People move here in retirement just to enjoy the national parks and horse racing.

You can't really say the same about tracks that run mostly year round. It's just not the same. And many of them are in kinda dangerous run down areas, etc.
I probably didn't make my point well. even during the Keeneland meets in April and October (also boutique meets) there is little racing talk here in Lexington. Just discussions of tailgates, who you saw and are going with, and stupid incessant talk about Ky basketball. I expect more in the heart of the breeding and racing industry. At least at Saratoga people actually talked racing during the live meet.
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