The "who out handled who" thread

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

I thought we were talking about Tampa vs. Aqueduct.

PaceAdvantage made a good move and merged the who has the better handle threads into one thread. It was starting to get a little silly with all these different threads talking about basically the same thing.

________
David-LV

[David-LV]

It is becoming very apparent that horse players are betting their dollars at tracks like Gulfstream & Tampa because of the large competitive fields and the chance to make some serious money versus tracks that either have small fields or non competitive races that produce lots of short price situations.

________
David-LV

[Rutgers]

Originally Posted by jelly

Handle for TB $10,949,807 att.10,755.

Handle for SA $10,336,295 att.10,190


Side note - Last years handle for SA.was $14,790,568 att 20,315.

Down over 30%. $4,445,273.


I cant believe they haven't rescinded the takeout yet.

A couple of questions, and everybody should feel free to comment.

1) Why do you compare all sources handles? While from handicapping perspective total all source handle on individual pools is important to some players, from the racetrack perspective isn’t on-track handle much more important since the get a much higher percentage of the handle vs. what they get from the off-track handle?

So using today’s figures, didn’t Santa Anita have a much better day then Tampa because Santa Anita handled $2,326,445 on-track vs. $876,063 for Tampa.

2) And do you know what percentage of the off-track handle each track receives? I would think Santa Anita may be able to sell their signal for a little more then Tampa, but I do not know for sure.

3) Along those lines, do you know for sure how well Santa Anita is (or isn’t) doing this year as compare to last year in terms of revenue to Santa Anita and the horsemen. The handle is down apparently (as expected), but do you know for a fact whether or not the takeout increase (and apparent signal fee increase) has made up the difference?

4) Why don’t you break the handle down to a per race average? Wouldn’t that be an easier and more accurate way to make handle comparisons?

5) Since three threads have been merged on who out-handled who, do any of you ever think about what percentage of the handle actually makes it to the track and horsemen that are actually putting on the races? Do you think it is a fair amount? If not, do you have any suggestions on how to increase the amount?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by jelly

Or maybe 26% takeout.

Like Gulfstream has?

Seriously though, if you can't understand that today was Tampa's biggest day of the year and that Gulfstream had a huge focus on it for Uncle Mo, you understand nothing. They run the Wood in a couple weeks, which is Aqueduct's biggest day. You think this same result happens?

I love it when people try to prove a point using a sample of one.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Actually, Tampa's handle last year was around the same as this year....about 10.8 million.

I looked at the interstate number and forgot to add in the onsite and intrastate.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

"So using today’s figures, didn’t Santa Anita have a much better day then Tampa because Santa Anita handled $2,326,445 on-track vs. $876,063 for Tampa."

What you state is accurate, but when looking at trends, Santa Anita (minus Zenyatta) was off close to $4 million in total handle than last year, while Tampa Bay did the same as last year.

No one will argue that Santa Anita makes more money for purses on bets than Tampa Bay does. But really, that isn't the point of comparing handles year to year.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by David-LV

PaceAdvantage made a good move and merged the who has the better handle threads into one thread. It was starting to get a little silly with all these different threads talking about basically the same thing.

________
David-LV

Well you started two of them right?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Various "out handled" threads have all been merged into one...

[YT="Now you've done it, PA!"]xos2MnVxe-c[/YT]

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by David-LV

It is becoming very apparent that horse players are betting their dollars at tracks like Gulfstream & Tampa because of the large competitive fields and the chance to make some serious money versus tracks that either have small fields or non competitive races that produce lots of short price situations.

________
David-LV

It's all relative, unless of course you have an agenda. I have no problelms with Tampa and Gulfstream, aside from the absurd laws in Florida regarding scratches in multi's after there has been a surface change.

Everyone knows racing in California is in serious trouble and has been for awhile now. But using Tampa's biggest day in comparison with Aqueduct on a non descript Saturday is a poor one and you know it. Then again, it could just be my NYRA paranoia acting up again.

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

A couple of questions, and everybody should feel free to comment.

I think these are good questions that a lot of folks don't understand.

Originally Posted by Rutgers

1) Why do you compare all sources handles? While from handicapping perspective total all source handle on individual pools is important to some players, from the racetrack perspective isn’t on-track handle much more important since the get a much higher percentage of the handle vs. what they get from the off-track handle?

Comparing all source handle doesn't give an accurate revenue picture. So comparing all source handle at one track to another doesn't make sense. The only use for it is to compare all source handle year to year.

Originally Posted by Rutgers

So using today’s figures, didn’t Santa Anita have a much better day then Tampa because Santa Anita handled $2,326,445 on-track vs. $876,063 for Tampa.

Correct, as HPB explained.

Originally Posted by Rutgers

2) And do you know what percentage of the off-track handle each track receives? I would think Santa Anita may be able to sell their signal for a little more then Tampa, but I do not know for sure.

Unfortunately no. Those numbers are kept secret and vary by who the signal is sold to, who is selling the signal, etc. As far as I understand though, you're right that SA charges more for their signal. Now the question is if they SHOULD charge more for their signal.

Originally Posted by Rutgers

3) Along those lines, do you know for sure how well Santa Anita is (or isn’t) doing this year as compare to last year in terms of revenue to Santa Anita and the horsemen. The handle is down apparently (as expected), but do you know for a fact whether or not the takeout increase (and apparent signal fee increase) has made up the difference?

Unfortunately, the answer again is no, we can't know for sure because we don't know the splits. The only thing that can be calculated is total takeout, and that was down 5.4 million for the year after last weekend at SA).

Originally Posted by Rutgers

4) Why don’t you break the handle down to a per race average? Wouldn’t that be an easier and more accurate way to make handle comparisons?

That's been done. Let me know what you're looking for.

Originally Posted by Rutgers

5) Since three threads have been merged on who out-handled who, do any of you ever think about what percentage of the handle actually makes it to the track and horsemen that are actually putting on the races? Do you think it is a fair amount? If not, do you have any suggestions on how to increase the amount?

I think to answer this question we first need to know what the split is. I also think that when thinking about the cost related to "putting on the show" there are several other factors involved. There is a finite amount of money available, and that money needs to be distributed in the right manner. If that money is not enough to "put on the show", then we have other issues. It's becoming increasingly too expensive to own horses in CA for example, but the cost side of things is consistantly ignored in place of the revenue side of things.

You asked for comments, and those are my thoughts.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Well you started two of them right?

You are correct my friend !!

________
David-LV

[jelly]

Another bad day for Santa Anita.


Handle-last year $8,966,897 att.8,729

Today $7,011,563 att.7,703


Santa Anita had a carryover today and was still down over 20%.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by jelly

Santa Anita had a carryover today and was still down over 20%.

National Tote Meltdown

[CBedo]

Has anyone actually looked at just the SA handle for the pools where takeout was raised, and then calculated the change in revenues associated with them?

(I'm lazy, and have not).

[Charli125]

We can't calculate revenue without knowing how the takeout is split, but in the pools where takeout was raised, they're down -2.7 million in takeout as of last weekend.

Handle is down in all pools, but with the takeout increase, despite lower handle, some of the pools have higher takeout.


EXA
(1,118,523.89) TRI (838,513.21) SPR 277,335.89 DD (237,463.75) P3 (508,086.67) P4 526,633.41 P6 (643,801.60) PPALL 21,226.63 HI5 (202,153.09)