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11-05-2019, 10:57 PM
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Maybe you’re referring to once you’ve paid the supplement, you’re now nominated and it’s good for that event and all future ones?
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Yes...I know I have seen people bring up the $200K as a reason they did not scratch. Breeders' Cup Ltd has been quiet. I was wondering for sure if that $200K is getting refunded.
The $200,000 did mean he was was eligible for all future BC's. And he won a Win and You're In, so the $150,000 entry fee was waived.
Amazing what a few horses paid early on:
https://www.drf.com/news/mongolian-g...less-expensive
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11-05-2019, 10:58 PM
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#257
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Vancouver Island
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,747
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Horses who vet scratch are refundable, but that only applies to NOMINATED horses, MG was not nominated
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11-05-2019, 11:05 PM
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#258
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster
A horse should not have its two hind legs hitting at the same time. When that happens, it indicates that one of its hind legs has a problem, and the horse is trying to compensate for it. If I can see this from my couch, it boggles my mind that others on track couldn't see it.
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I was sitting here thinking that, if a horse has a very awkward running style, like Vekoma did.......I could never tell if that was coming from his shoulder or his leg. But his walking was normal looking......that characteristic only appeared when he runs. At any rate, if he had broken down in the KY Derby I"m sure his leg action would have been blamed, except for this: He ALWAYS runs that way.
In order for me to know more about how Mongolian Groom runs, I would pretty much have to see more than just his latest works at SA. I would need to compare his usual running style and conformation to the more recent one.
While I am in the corner of improving safety at all tracks, I honestly do think that SA for the 2 days Breeders Cup did do pretty much everything possible to ensure a very safe experience.
While racing has some serious problems in this regard, I just can't use the Mongolian Groom situation to speak for ALL horse racing safety problems (which I believe are multifactorial anyway and not necessarily track surface/maintenance). If SA dropped the ball in any way, or if stable hands, groom and backside workers saw a clear problem, and tried to tell somebody, then I will say they dropped the ball. But until a full necropsy is done, I just can't go there.
I think in a way we may be putting all of racing's failings for better horse safety onto the shoulders on this one incident, despite that the track and everyone involved on Fri and Sat really went over and above and beyond what happens on MOST RACE DAYS.
So again, I await the full necropsy reports, etc. Meanwhile nothing SA did or didn't do for Fri or Sat really "makes up" for what racing hasn't done, across the board and the only way to ensure things change is to support the horse racing integrety act, WHOA, better and more careful data keeping on breakdowns, and more science and studies to advance our knowledge about how we can do better for the horses. I do think MOST PEOPLE are trying to do that........we need to get those who aren't, and all the tracks who aren't, into formation and have some centralized rules and consequences to make sure things are better.
Right now, SA doesn't fall under the scofflaws category for me on Friday or Sat of last week cuz I think they took extraordinary precautions.
Last edited by clicknow; 11-05-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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11-06-2019, 02:27 AM
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#260
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I know, it’s a real shocker that those people didn’t all run over to that PA forum and tell you guys. I’m not even sure why I bother.
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I don't know why not. It's basically the only one not on life support.
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 11-06-2019 at 02:35 AM.
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11-06-2019, 02:28 AM
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#261
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
How do you know any of this? How many barns are you in every week? How many trainers and owners are you talking to daily?
Don’t attempt to lecture me on what goes on in the barns and in this sport. I see 1000 times more than you do, and I know the good, the bad, and the ugly. I’ve been fighting against the bad and ugly the whole time I’ve worked in this sport, and if I’m frustrated and angry at how it continues, I have that right. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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11-06-2019, 02:30 AM
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#262
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster
Question for the 'accidents happen and horses die' crowd - did you watch him warm up or his work leading into the race?
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They scratched a bunch of horses off the BC card because they were operating under an abundance of caution.
How come they didn't scratch MG?
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11-06-2019, 02:31 AM
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#263
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
How many times does this have to be repeated?
The horse was lame PRIOR to the race, and there are multiple videos of him on different days showing that he was off in the hind end.
That his trainer, his vet, and the BC vets all allowed this horse to run (I do not for a single second believe that any of the aforementioned did not know the horse was off in the hind, because I doubt any of them are that incompetent) was an obvious fail.
I can't say it any clearer than that.
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How come they scratched a bunch of horses from the BC races and not "OBVIOUS" MG?
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11-06-2019, 02:32 AM
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#264
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
You understand that the vets were out in force watching all the horses on the track? So they saw what the videos showed.
No, it’s not weird. So your opinion is that all of those people were incompetent? Because it is one or the other.
I think they aren’t incompetent and made the wrong call. They didn’t err on the side of caution. They failed the horse, and they failed the sport.
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What a ****ing drama queen you are.
Again...why didn't they scratch the horse? They had no problem scratching a handful of others.
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11-06-2019, 08:20 AM
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#265
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
What a ****ing drama queen you are.
Again...why didn't they scratch the horse? They had no problem scratching a handful of others.
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That’s the question all are asking.
See the Paulick Report article. I may be a ****ing drama queen, but I was right.
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11-06-2019, 08:55 AM
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#266
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob60566
Horses who vet scratch are refundable, but that only applies to NOMINATED horses, MG was not nominated
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I looked at the rules again. The $200,000 is considered a nomination fee, not a supplemental fee, so it’s not refundable under any scenario as it only made him BC nominated and therefore eligible to run.
He would’ve been eligible to then receive back entry and pre-entry fees.
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11-06-2019, 09:27 AM
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#267
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
So now you’re going to act like PA?
They told a number of people. I know, it’s a real shocker that those people didn’t all run over to that PA forum and tell you guys. I’m not even sure why I bother.
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Why didnt you mention what you were hearing before the event?
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11-06-2019, 09:27 AM
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#268
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
That’s the question all are asking.
See the Paulick Report article. I may be a ****ing drama queen, but I was right.
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There's a link from Paulick Report which shows that MG was definitively injured before the race?
Link please.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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11-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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#269
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
I looked at the rules again. The $200,000 is considered a nomination fee, not a supplemental fee, so it’s not refundable under any scenario as it only made him BC nominated and therefore eligible to run.
He would’ve been eligible to then receive back entry and pre-entry fees.
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Well since the $150K entry fee was paid by the BC as part of the "Win and You're In" series, I doubt the connections got that back, so it appears they are out the $200K?
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11-06-2019, 09:54 AM
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#270
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katewerk
As I suspected - virtue signalling.
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Definitely 'Virtue Signaling'. 
The funny/sad part is, that these comments go WAY beyond the basic hangup of VirtueSignaling, where they are begging for social approval, and extends into these whole weird narrative delusions.
Fager Fan, and much of the network-effect population of internet posters in places like the Tweet that was shared, or comments in Paulick Report have their own 'story'. The trainer is Cruella de Vil. He's an evil Mongolian, and the BC Vets are powerless to such a tyrant. And accounts vary as to whether they're simply sadists who wanted to see suffering and death, or whether he decided to sacrifice his lame horse over a nomination fee...
Yes the Vets scratched a bunch of horses, yes they scratched Chad Brown's Thais who was an important rabbit for Sister Charlie, but this Mongolian Man has them by the balls.
They have no interest (or capability) for rational discussion. A roadkill splatter of virtue signaling, guilt, and group think.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 11-06-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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