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10-09-2018, 11:50 AM
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#16
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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There is nothing illegal about a group of people pooling their money together to make a wager. This happens all the time with "Lottery syndicates" if you want to call them that. Many times its a group of people at work who are glorified by the media when they hit and take a group picture together. Nobody questions this as "illegal".
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10-09-2018, 12:26 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
There is nothing illegal about a group of people pooling their money together to make a wager. This happens all the time with "Lottery syndicates" if you want to call them that. Many times its a group of people at work who are glorified by the media when they hit and take a group picture together. Nobody questions this as "illegal".
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There are things that are illegal that just aren't prosecuted. I have no idea if Lottery syndicates or pari-mutuel syndicates are either legal or illegal. I would assume that a person running such a syndicate would not want to run afoul of state laws. Multi-state syndicates would present the most issues. What is legal in state A might be illegal in state B. Collecting money from other state residents might be the biggest stumbling block.
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10-09-2018, 01:00 PM
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#18
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
There are things that are illegal that just aren't prosecuted.
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So if a few friends of mine and I want to play some of these big pick 6 carryovers and we pool our money together, you are saying we are breaking the law? Baloney.
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10-09-2018, 01:15 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
So if a few friends of mine and I want to play some of these big pick 6 carryovers and we pool our money together, you are saying we are breaking the law? Baloney.
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I didn't say that. If your friend is in Utah and sends you money via Paypal to play the P-6 you might have issues. If you and your friends meet outside of the track or OTB and you collect the money and then take the money to the track by yourself to make the bets you may have issues. It all depends on state laws and a willingness to prosecute.
Last edited by AndyC; 10-09-2018 at 01:20 PM.
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10-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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#20
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I didn't say that. If your friend is in Utah and sends you money via Paypal to play the P-6 you might have issues. If you and your friends meet outside of the track or OTB and you collect the money and then take the money to the track by yourself to make the bets you may have issues. It all depends on state laws and a willingness to prosecute.
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That doesn't seem to be an issue with the OP.
Also just because you are a group of people making a combined wager and you call yourselves a syndicate, doesn't make you illegal.
An illegal syndicate is one where the proceeds in and or out of the syndicate are connected to criminal activities such as the Mafia use to run.
A legal syndicate is one where a group of people combine their wagers and there are no illegal ties in or out of the syndicate. It is also condoned and supported by the IRS or they would not have created form 5754 which is just for that purpose.
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10-09-2018, 02:30 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
That doesn't seem to be an issue with the OP.
Also just because you are a group of people making a combined wager and you call yourselves a syndicate, doesn't make you illegal.
An illegal syndicate is one where the proceeds in and or out of the syndicate are connected to criminal activities such as the Mafia use to run.
A legal syndicate is one where a group of people combine their wagers and there are no illegal ties in or out of the syndicate. It is also condoned and supported by the IRS or they would not have created form 5754 which is just for that purpose.
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I did not say that a group of people cannot combine their money to make a wager. It's how and where you combine that matters. Back in the 80s a well-known handicapper named Gordon Jones was arrested for bookmaking because he collected money off-site for group P-6s.
A form 5754 is an administrative form that notifies the payor how the winnings are divided. It is not form that legalizes groups that are acting outside of the state or federal law.
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10-09-2018, 03:16 PM
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#22
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I did not say that a group of people cannot combine their money to make a wager. It's how and where you combine that matters. Back in the 80s a well-known handicapper named Gordon Jones was arrested for bookmaking because he collected money off-site for group P-6s.
A form 5754 is an administrative form that notifies the payor how the winnings are divided. It is not form that legalizes groups that are acting outside of the state or federal law.
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If you read what I wrote you would understand that I already said a syndicate is illegal when it is tied to criminal activities. Bookmaking is a criminal activity so your point about GP is mute.
Also it is absurd for you to think that I think form 5754, an IRS document, would legalize an illegal activity. 
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10-09-2018, 03:25 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
If you read what I wrote you would understand that I already said a syndicate is illegal when it is tied to criminal activities. Bookmaking is a criminal activity so your point about GP is mute...
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OK. What we don't agree on is what constitutes criminal activity.
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10-09-2018, 03:29 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
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Let me understand this:
If forty guys bet their money separately, then they are doing nothing wrong. But if they pool their money and wager as a team, then they are now a "betting syndicate"...and there might be "criminal activity" going on?
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10-09-2018, 03:54 PM
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#25
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
OK. What we don't agree on is what constitutes criminal activity.
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It's not what we say, it is what the law says.
Last edited by Light; 10-09-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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10-09-2018, 04:06 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Let me understand this:
If forty guys bet their money separately, then they are doing nothing wrong. But if they pool their money and wager as a team, then they are now a "betting syndicate"...and there might be "criminal activity" going on?
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No you don't understand. Where did the 40 guys pool their money? How did they pool their money? Did they all go to the track or OTB where the bet was placed?
If 40 guys did their pooling at the track or OTB they would have no issues. Each state has laws governing gambling within their own states so anything done away from the track or OTB may or may not be a problem.
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10-09-2018, 04:17 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
No you don't understand. Where did the 40 guys pool their money? How did they pool their money? Did they all go to the track or OTB where the bet was placed?
If 40 guys did their pooling at the track or OTB they would have no issues. Each state has laws governing gambling within their own states so anything done away from the track or OTB may or may not be a problem.
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If I am in a group of 40 guys, and we are pooling our money and betting as a team, and I am assigned the responsibility of carrying the collected money to the track and placing the wagers...can I be brought up on "bookmaking" charges? Is that what the government calls "bookmaking"?
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10-09-2018, 04:18 PM
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#28
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
No you don't understand. Where did the 40 guys pool their money? How did they pool their money? Did they all go to the track or OTB where the bet was placed?
If 40 guys did their pooling at the track or OTB they would have no issues. Each state has laws governing gambling within their own states so anything done away from the track or OTB may or may not be a problem.
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Dude ,the OP never brought up these hypotheticals. You did and you want to beat your chest about it.
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10-09-2018, 04:19 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
If I am in a group of 40 guys, and we are pooling our money and betting as a team, and I am assigned the responsibility of carrying the collected money to the track and placing the wagers...can I be brought up on "bookmaking" charges? Is that what the government calls "bookmaking"?
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It's a state by state issue.
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10-09-2018, 04:36 PM
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#30
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
It's a state by state issue.
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Andy, seems like you’ve got a good handle on it
State lines make difference. Transfer of the money makes a difference.
Btw, the OP lives in Austin. That DA/prosecutor is known for being a little different” ........
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