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08-04-2018, 03:41 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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Dirt allowance field size
N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries
The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.
I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
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08-04-2018, 06:30 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries
The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.
I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
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Saratoga and New York in general have had small fields on the dirt for years.
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08-04-2018, 08:16 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,123
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And to support the overpriced take out, they also think that higher purses = larger field size.
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08-04-2018, 08:48 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Yea, Ron is correct this is nothing new, though Saratoga always felt a bit insulated to the problem but not anymore. The rich stakes get shippers so they usually do ok.
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08-05-2018, 10:08 AM
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#5
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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Trainers love small fields.
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08-05-2018, 10:56 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
N1X dirt-sprint at Del Mar today (Purse $62K): 12 entries
N1X dirt-sprint at SAR on Monday ($87K): 6 entries
The perception here is that over the past two years at NYRA tracks there’s been an ever-increasing trend that dirt allowance races will never have more than six runners. If there’s eight entries, the best bet of the day is that there will be two scratches in that race.
I’ve never paid much attention to California racing, but maybe I need to start.
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Hey Cholly
I can't speak for California tracks but at Saratoga the Allowance races on the Dirt have been quite small looks like barely 7 to 8 horses a race going back to 2016 to 2017 from what I can see
Code:
RowNum: Pgm#: Win$: Plc$ Shw$: Dist: RCond: TrCond: #Hrses: Date: ML Horse Trainer
1 2 10.8 5.6 4.0 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 07-22-2016 4/1# Takrees (KY) K P McLaughlin
2 5 37.4 7.8 4.4 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 6 07-23-2016 12/1# Tale of Verve (KY) D Stewart
3 4 6.1 3.1 2.4 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 07-24-2016 3/1# Bird Song (KY) I R Wilkes
4 2 7.0 5.1 3.7 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 12 07-24-2016 4/1# Super Surprise (NY) T A Pletcher
5 2 27.8 11.6 7.3 6.5 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 9 07-29-2016 12/1# Eden Ridge (NY) C F Martin
6 7 7.3 3.8 2.6 1 M Alw Dirt Sloppy 5 07-31-2016 5/1# Hammers Vision (ON) B A Lynch
7 3 10.6 2.9 2.6 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Sloppy 6 08-01-2016 3/1# Brimstone (NY) J P Terranova II
8 3 4.5 2.9 2.5 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-05-2016 5/2# Linda Mimi (KY) G Delgado
9 3 5.1 3.3 2.5 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 08-06-2016 9/5# Summer Revolution (KY) R R Rodriguez
10 5 10.0 5.1 3.9 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 9 08-12-2016 4/1# Adulator (KY) J A Jerkens
11 3 8.1 5.2 4.1 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 08-15-2016 10/1# Loose On the Town (ON) B A Lynch
12 7 5.0 2.9 2.6 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 08-18-2016 5/2# Malibu Stacy (KY) G Weaver
13 10 8.0 4.5 3.4 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 10 08-19-2016 5/2# Riot Worthy (NY) C Baker
14 2 8.5 5.1 3.3 7 Furl Alw Dirt Good 9 08-21-2016 5/2# Big Zip (NY) R R Rodriguez
15 1 5.2 3.8 2.4 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-22-2016 2/1# Weekend Hideaway (NY) P M Serpe
16 4 11.8 6.0 4.2 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Good 7 08-25-2016 5/2# Cadeyrn (KY) J C Englehart
17 4 17.2 6.6 4.3 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-28-2016 5/2# Saharan (KY) J A Jerkens
18 3 78.5 31.2 15.2 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 13 09-03-2016 15/1# Silver Ride (KY) B A Lynch
19 7 7.5 4.8 2.8 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 09-04-2016 3/1# Bluegrass Prevails (NY) G P Gullo
20 5 2.5 2.2 2.1 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 09-05-2016 8/5# Woodville (NY) J R Abreu
21 8 8.6 3.9 3.4 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 9 07-21-2017 7/2# Takaful (KY) K P McLaughlin
22 12 10.6 5.7 3.9 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 13 07-22-2017 7/2# Build to Suit (NY) C C Brown
23 5 3.9 2.6 0.0 7 Furl Alw Dirt Sloppy 4 07-24-2017 3/1# Dawn the Destroyer (KY) K P McLaughlin
24 4 6.0 4.0 3.0 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Good 6 07-26-2017 5/2# Fayeq (KY) K P McLaughlin
25 1 15.2 5.8 3.0 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 5 07-31-2017 5/2# Smile Big (FL) R R Rodriguez
26 4 7.6 4.4 3.1 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 9 08-04-2017 3/1# Petrov (KY) R Moquett
27 4 13.8 6.6 3.9 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 8 08-06-2017 5/2# Royal Inheritance (NY) D A Cannizzo
28 7 12.0 5.1 3.5 6.5 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 8 08-07-2017 7/2# Shimmering Moon (NY) M Nevin
29 6 9.8 5.9 4.6 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-09-2017 9/2# Verdant Pastures (NY) C Baker
30 2 8.9 5.3 3.5 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-11-2017 5/1# Dfunnything (NY) C Baker
31 1 6.9 3.2 2.6 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 08-17-2017 9/5# Beasley (KY) M A Hennig
32 9 4.5 3.0 2.3 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Muddy 6 08-18-2017 2/1# Caviar Czar (IRE) T A Pletcher
33 7 28.6 9.1 6.9 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Fast 9 08-19-2017 15/1# Race Me Home (IRE) D L Romans
34 3 5.4 3.8 3.4 6.5 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 8 08-21-2017 9/5# Run and Go (KY) T A Pletcher
35 7 9.7 5.3 4.1 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 9 08-24-2017 2/1# Jewel Can Disco (NY) G P Gullo
36 5 16.2 6.9 3.4 6.5 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 7 08-24-2017 12/1# T Loves a Fight (NY) M Nevin
37 6 3.2 2.2 2.1 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 08-30-2017 8/5# Mr. Crow (KY) T A Pletcher
38 3 5.1 2.9 2.5 6 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 8 09-02-2017 2/1# Bluegrass Jamboree (NY) C Baker
39 8 7.9 5.1 3.2 6 Furl Alw Dirt Sloppy 9 09-03-2017 5/2# Kirbys Penny (KY) W A Ward
18 Prices under $8 46.1% Avg Win $ 11.8
ML Odds Win/Att Pct Win Amt Cost P / L Pct Rtrn per $1
5/2 10/19 52.6% 97.9 38 59.9 157%
2/1 4/11 36.3% 24.5 22 2.5 11%
7/2 3/12 25% 31.2 24 7.2 30%
All/5 5/15 33.3% 23.1 30 -6.9 -24%
What's interesting here is that the Morning Line Favorites have been having a field day
If you scroll down you'll see that those with a tag of 5/2 have won 10 of the last 19 races which to me is unbelievable!!!
There have not been many longshots in this situation it seems the Morning Line Favorites are running true to form especially the 5/2s for some reason!!!
Let's keep an eye on this situation from now on at Saratoga!!!
Also, I didn't keep track of the type of Allowance race N1X etc. if it said Allowance I just picked it up
Last edited by TheOracle; 08-05-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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08-05-2018, 11:09 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,625
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I will take a look at 2018 for this situation at Saratoga
Code:
RowNum: PgmNum: Win$: Plc$: Shw$: Dist: RCond: TrCond: #Hrses: Date: ML Horse. Trainer
1 3 18.0 8.5 5.6 6.5 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 10 07-20-2018 6/1# Hay Field (NY) J C Englehart
2 4 4.8 3.5 2.5 1 1/8 M Alw Dirt Sloppy 6 07-26-2018 2/1# Alberobello (KY) T A Pletcher
3 5 9.0 4.4 3.5 6 Furl Alw Dirt Sloppy 9 07-27-2018 7/2# Stoney Bennett (NY) L Rice
4 7 4.7 2.7 2.2 6 Furl Alw Dirt Good 7 07-28-2018 7/2# Satisfy (NY) W I Mott
5 14 7.7 3.2 3.2 1 M Alw Dirt Good 6 07-28-2018 3/1# Chris and Dave (KY) R Diodoro
6 8 33.2 11.2 4.4 7 Furl Alw Dirt Fast 6 07-29-2018 12/1# Uno Mas Modelo (KY) A T Quartarolo
3 Prices under $8 50% Avg Win $ 12.9
ML Odds Win/Att Pct Win Amt Cost P / L Pct Retrn per $1
5/2 0/2 0% 4 -4 -100%
2/1 1/2 50% 4.8 4 0.8 19%
7/2 2/5 40% 13.7 10 3.7 36%
All/5 0/0 0% 0 0 0%
It seems this year's Allowance races have not been dominated by the Morning Line Favorites
However, let's keep an eye on it for the rest of the Saratoga season!!!
I do notice just about 6 horses per race so far this year in this situation....hmmm
Last edited by TheOracle; 08-05-2018 at 11:23 AM.
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08-06-2018, 03:06 PM
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#8
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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Oracle,
How do you embed a sheet like that?
I assume it is text?
Thanks,
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08-08-2018, 12:19 PM
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#9
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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half ass race
Today's 8th race
they only carded half of a field to begin with (6 horses)
now one of the horses scratched, so we are down to 5 horses
five horses in the eighth race (supposed to be at or near the card's heart/peak) during a Saratoga card is SAD
Anecdotally, it seems that 50% of these cards either have some half-ass allowance field of 6 or 5 , or some half-ass restricted stakes with five or six horses.
We all love Saratoga, but they can do better than this.
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 08-08-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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08-08-2018, 12:28 PM
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#10
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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Almost seems to be planned.
They should stop carding certain classes - mayb only 1 race per meet.
Either run in it or ship out.
Wouldn't hurt Toga or NYRA for that matter, to have a few of the barn never run there again.
Obviously, the purses for these races should be cut in half - not worth the fields they draw now. OR re-write the conditions to allow horses from other tracks to ship in. Get rig of the $10,000 clause - make it simply nw1x, nw2x...etc.
So what if we get full fields from FL, Pen, FE...... still better than the slew of turf sprints and nw claimers they puke out onto us every day.
Racing Secretary not doing a good job for whatever reasons. 5 horse fields in August- time for a new strategy. This one ain't cutting it.
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08-09-2018, 01:38 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Trainers love small fields.
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Not as much as owners.
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"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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08-09-2018, 02:20 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 36
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Heck even the fourstardave Saturday has just 7 horses...
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08-09-2018, 02:23 PM
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#13
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapman
Heck even the fourstardave Saturday has just 7 horses...
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And one of those cross entered at Arlington.
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08-10-2018, 11:32 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 946
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Well, I was wrong about dirt allowance races ALWAYS scratching down to six entries. The 6th race today for N1X state-bred dirt sprinters only scratched down to 7 entries--maybe one of the trainers didn't get the memo?
The other two allowance races carded today scratched down to five entries each.
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08-10-2018, 05:08 PM
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#15
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cholly
Well, I was wrong about dirt allowance races ALWAYS scratching down to six entries. The 6th race today for N1X state-bred dirt sprinters only scratched down to 7 entries--maybe one of the trainers didn't get the memo?
The other two allowance races carded today scratched down to five entries each.
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that was weird. Gave me goosebumps to see a n1x with a crowded field of 7...
At least today is 'featured' by the Tale of the Cat S. a Restricted $100K stakes with a field of 5 (and only 4 players).
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