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Old 04-04-2018, 08:53 PM   #1
boys at tosconova
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santa anita derby

wow....wut a motley crue of horses outside of bolt and justify. guesswe will see just how good justify is

will the triple even pay double digits..lol
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:06 PM   #2
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wow....wut a motley crue of horses outside of bolt and justify. guesswe will see just how good justify is

will the triple even pay double digits..lol
50 cent trifacta might pay $2.50 if Bolt/Justify finish over Instilled Regard. I'm just not sure how good Justify will be. Heartfullofstars running in the Race 10 Wood at Aqueduct won his maiden mile in the slop at Santa Anita a week before Justify in 1:35.89 versus Justify's 135.73. Justify ran last quarter in over 26 seconds. Maybe a little geared down the last few strides but unanswered question about how far his speed will go. The only way to get a half arse payout here is to have Bolt or Justify knocked out of the top two. I think I'll play Bolt/IR,Justify trifecta and hope IR fills the middle. I don't think any of the others are even close.

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Old 04-05-2018, 12:06 PM   #3
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My plan is to bet $80 in the race. I like the top 3 ice cold

What I can’t decide is if I am better off just playing the tri straight and punch the ticket 80 times ( based off $1 base wager ) or if I should play the super and just treat it like a straight trifecta and use all remaining horses for the 4th spot and punch the ticket 20 times.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:04 PM   #4
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wow....wut a motley crue of horses outside of bolt and justify. guesswe will see just how good justify is

will the triple even pay double digits..lol
I think Instilled Regard is a nice horse and wont be at all shocked to see him run well in this race and down the road. There are 3 legit horses in this race.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:11 PM   #5
Robert Fischer
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50 cent trifacta might pay $2.50 if Bolt/Justify finish over Instilled Regard. I'm just not sure how good Justify will be. Heartfullofstars running in the Race 10 Wood at Aqueduct won his maiden mile in the slop at Santa Anita a week before Justify in 1:35.89 versus Justify's 135.73. Justify ran last quarter in over 26 seconds. Maybe a little geared down the last few strides but unanswered question about how far his speed will go. The only way to get a half arse payout here is to have Bolt or Justify knocked out of the top two. I think I'll play Bolt/IR,Justify trifecta and hope IR fills the middle. I don't think any of the others are even close.
That's the wise play for this scenario.
A 'buzz' horse stepping up in class and taking money against proven horses.

My gut says that Justify is the best dirt horse in training. Triple Crown or close and Win or place in the Breeders Cup Classic barring injury. But, I agree with what you are saying.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:36 PM   #6
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I agree with everyone here. 3 contenders and no $ to be made unless you bet it straight. And even if you do that you might get 4-1. Just can not find a reason that any other horse can jump up and suprise.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:58 PM   #7
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My plan is to bet $80 in the race. I like the top 3 ice cold

What I can’t decide is if I am better off just playing the tri straight and punch the ticket 80 times ( based off $1 base wager ) or if I should play the super and just treat it like a straight trifecta and use all remaining horses for the 4th spot and punch the ticket 20 times.
I would look at the doubles Race 8, big field w/7/2 ML favorite w/many horse 6-1 to 8-1. You will know the probables w/your 6 in the 2nd leg. Pick 2 and play a $40 DD wheel. I would think this will pay better than the tri-unless you miss the 1st leg
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:07 AM   #8
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wow....wut a motley crue of horses outside of bolt and justify. guesswe will see just how good justify is

will the triple even pay double digits..lol
isn't it supposed to rain? If it rains then I can possibly see a way to make some $$ here with some longshot who can run in slop. there are 4 horses who have/can and 3 who haven't and dunno if they can.

So anybody know the forecast and how much rain, if any?
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:23 AM   #9
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That's the wise play for this scenario.
A 'buzz' horse stepping up in class and taking money against proven horses.

My gut says that Justify is the best dirt horse in training. Triple Crown or close and Win or place in the Breeders Cup Classic barring injury. But, I agree with what you are saying.
I am on the bandwagon with you here Robert. I truly believe that we have a very special horse here in Justify. Hopefully things go well moving forward and he can stay safe and sound.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:08 PM   #10
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Bolt stays within 3 of Justify in this crapfest, he could be "the" horse in the Derby.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:45 PM   #11
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:41 AM   #12
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Interesting in that it appears that Ruis entered a rabbit for this race. Not sure it matters much given that Justify is drawn outside and can rate fine enough.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:07 AM   #13
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A fun race to handicap, filled with drama and consequence.

In this running of the Santa Anita Derby we have the inexperienced, late developing, highly talented Justify (500k, DP = 5-6-8-1-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.75) running against the precious Dual Qualifying, Dual G1 winner Bolt d’Oro (630k, DP = 7-11-12-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.72). Couldn’t be a better horse race; no traffic, no excuses.

Bolt d’Oro is ranked number one the EFH (tied w/Good Magic) and ranked number one on Equineline’s NARC Ratings. He is arguably the best three-year-old in the county having just beaten McKinzie by DQ earning a BRIS Class Rating 121. Owned by Ruis Racing, LLC and trained by Mick Ruis, Hall of Famer Javier Castellano is in the irons. Works a bullet 47 flat and a comfortable 1:01.1, Ruis has him dialed in tight and ready. CD says 7.88 furlongs. His sire, Medaglia d’Oro is listed as a Stamina Influence on the Speed/Stamina Characteristics of Prominent Non Chef-de-Race Sires. Leading Sire Statistics has the AWD of Medaglia d’Oro’s progeny at 8.46 furlongs.

Justify didn’t race as a two-year-old. As a three-year-old, he is undefeated in two starts w/a last race BRIS Class Rating 118. Owned by China Horse Club (same as Audible), trained by Baffert and ridden by “Money” Mike Smith, both Hall of Famers. Blistering Baffert works of 46.2, 59.3 and 1:13.1, Baffert wants vengeance for the San Felipe! CD says 8.03 furlongs. His sire, Scat Daddy is listed as a Stamina Influence on the Speed/Stamina Characteristics of Prominent Non Chef-de-Race Sires. Leading Sire Statistics has the AWD of Scat Daddy’s progeny at 8.13 furlongs.

Wow, what drama! Ruis, Baffert, the works, the San Felipe . . . McKenzie out, the Ruis rabbit?; will the pace favor Instilled Regard? When was the last time you saw a 46.2 work? Javier shifts from Audible to Bolt; same owners. Is it Johnny V/Audible, Javi/Bolt or Money Mike/Justify? Who is gonna ride Noble Indy and what about Magnum Moon? Is there no one else? IS THERE NO ONE ELSE !?

~

Of consequence, I consider this an important race as this race may highlight the continuing evolutionary shift from the early developing, Dual Qualifying classic type to the inexperienced, late developing, and highly talented type. “It is also possible that increased fragility in the Thoroughbred diminishes the probability of early developing types surviving the rigors of a two-year-old campaign and a long three-year-old campaign. This could account for their displacement by later-developing runners that have been subjected to less stress.” (Roman, 2016) “The research [Dosage] reflects a remarkable history now threatened to pass. Horses bred for speed and more speed not only do not become classic winners, but they also do not possess sufficient stamina and endurance to be durable. So they race less frequently, suffer greater distress and retire prematurely. “(Quinn, 2012)

This evolutionary shift is nothing new. Generally, that best of three one-mile stamina laden heat horse of the early to mid-19th century was displaced by the Iron Horse type of the late 19th to early 20th century, who in turn were displaced by the speed types of the mid to late 20th century. As the frontier of speed continues to shift into the early 21st century, we are seeing a new type emerge.

We saw this new type emerge last year in the Kentucky and this year in the Rebel, Louisiana and the Florida. The inexperienced, late-developing, highly talented three-year-olds are serving notice and are thumping the proven and ranked two-year-olds running at three. Will we see the same come the Santa Anita? This race in its distinctiveness may highlight an interesting and compelling evolutionary trend.

Enough of the consequential stuff. It’ll be interesting to see how this race is run and the workouts may provide a clue. These trainers have their horses’ wired tight w/sensational workouts. Ruis has the class horse and Baffert knows it. Baffert has to send, Ruis has to match strides or Justify wires em’. Are we gonna see a good ol’ match race like the olden days!?

Bolt d’Oro and Justify hook ala Always Dreaming and Classic Empire in the Preakness; Justify backs out running up the track, never the same. Class and the sire AWD telling the tale. Pedigree and its relationship to performance still matters . . . for now.

Please excuse the long windiness and the consequential stuff.

Lookin forward to a good ol’ match race come the Santa Anita Derby! Should be a fun race to watch.
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Last edited by Blenheim; 04-07-2018 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Typo . . .
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:47 AM   #14
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I do not think you can consider the other Ruis horse a rabbit. Seems to me he is the second slowest horse in the race besides the 5 who is an absolute plodder. Is there something I am missing?
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:59 AM   #15
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Interesting in that it appears that Ruis entered a rabbit for this race. Not sure it matters much given that Justify is drawn outside and can rate fine enough.

This is why if, in the judgment of the Stewards, a horse is being entered a rabbit, then the rabbit and the stablemate need to be coupled in the wagering.

It's called "the integrity of the sport" - which it is the Stewards' job to uphold.

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