Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

That's because manure is used for farming more so than spreading biblical "good news"

Btw, Hinduism pre-dates all youse edu-macated Christ-dus.

Scholars regard Hinduism as a synthesis of various Indian cultures and traditions, with diverse roots and no single founder. The history of Hinduism is often divided into periods of development, with the first period being that of the historical Vedic religion dated from about 1900 BCE to 1400 BCE.

Then it predates Judaism, as well. Abraham wasn't called by God until around 2000 BC, so what's your point? What's the good news message of Hinduism -- let's spread the manure around on our farms so that we can eat and worship the cows from which it came? I suppose, though, that still beats worshiping the manure itself.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You're correct. No other religion or more correctly, interpretation of religion, has their deity licking it's chops murdering infants as some sort of divine "justice"

Even that's not true. The ancients often sacrificed their kiddies to their demon gods.

And capital punishment isn't murder -- in spite of what the current pope may think.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Even that's not true. The ancients often sacrificed their kiddies to their demon gods.

And capital punishment isn't murder -- in spite of what the current pope may think.

But it is not good news at all...first it tells us that from the second we are born that we are filthy nasty buggers that deserve to die or burn in hell forever...all because some guy born thousands of years ago ate an apple...i guess that’s why god was able to drown all those thousands of nasty infants and lust-filled toddlers and teenagers in the Flood...yeah, that is really good news...what a great problem solver, who works his will through us....kind of like a hammer works its will through a cockroach....splat...!

God, the author of genocide, mass infanticide...great role model.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then it predates Judaism, as well. Abraham wasn't called by God until around 2000 BC, so what's your point? What's the good news message of Hinduism -- let's spread the manure around on our farms so that we can eat and worship the cows from which it came? I suppose, though, that still beats worshiping the manure itself.

You are basing Christianity on it's predecessor Judaism, which in fact ignore most of Christianity.

In a similar derivation, Hinduism is based on it's predecessors, notably...

Religions of the Indus Valley Civilization .

An ancient civilization located in what is Pakistan and northwest India today, on the fertile flood plain of the Indus River and its vicinity. Evidence of religious practices in this area date back approximately to 5500 BCE.

Btw, if you insist on using the oldest questionable Judaic archeology, you lode the oldest "title"

However I studied a school of philosophy stemming from Adi Shankara, and practice a meditation derived from this modern form of Hinduism. His Advaita ("non-dualism") interpretation of the sruti postulates the identity of the Self (Atman) and the Whole (Brahman[note 4]). According to Adi Shankara, the one unchanging entity (Brahman) alone is real, while changing entities do not have absolute existence. Taoism and other eastern teachings share very similar concepts.

So do the Abrahamic religions if you do not fall victim to the literal, and confuse the "map for the territory"

Your overwhelming problem

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

But it is not good news at all...first it tells us that from the second we are born that we are filthy nasty buggers that deserve to die or burn in hell forever...all because some guy born thousands of years ago ate an apple...i guess that’s why god was able to drown all those thousands of nasty infants and lust-filled toddlers and teenagers in the Flood...yeah, that is really good news...what a great problem solver, who works his will through us....kind of like a hammer works its will through a cockroach....splat...!

God, the author of genocide, mass infanticide...great role model.

Yeah...I can see what you mean. With our sinful nature, it's really, really, really tough to not wax self-righteous and to see ourselves as God sees us; but instead fault God for all the humanity's miseries. (In fact...let me rephrase that -- it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to accept the bad news about ourselves.) So,because so many of us cannot get past the bad news about ourselves, we totally ignore the great news about God's gracious and kind and merciful remedy for sinful humanity.

But thanks be to God for his saving grace; for so that many in the world have had our eyes open to see the bad news and then run to God for forgiveness that can only be had in Jesus. How many, no one knows. But John tells us in Revelation that saints in heaven who have come from every nation, all tribes and peoples and tongues are so numerous that no one could count them (Rev 7:9). I think that is really great news!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Even that's not true. The ancients often sacrificed their kiddies to their demon gods.

And capital punishment isn't murder -- in spite of what the current pope may think.

But your "new covenant" god is all-loving.

There seems to be a problem believing this stuff literally

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are basing Christianity on it's predecessor Judaism, which in fact ignore most of Christianity.

In a similar derivation, Hinduism is based on it's predecessors, notably...

Religions of the Indus Valley Civilization .

An ancient civilization located in what is Pakistan and northwest India today, on the fertile flood plain of the Indus River and its vicinity. Evidence of religious practices in this area date back approximately to 5500 BCE.

Btw, if you insist on using the oldest questionable Judaic archeology, you lode the oldest "title"

However I studied a school of philosophy stemming from Adi Shankara, and practice a meditation derived from this modern form of Hinduism. His Advaita ("non-dualism") interpretation of the sruti postulates the identity of the Self (Atman) and the Whole (Brahman[note 4]). According to Adi Shankara, the one unchanging entity (Brahman) alone is real, while changing entities do not have absolute existence. Taoism and other eastern teachings share very similar concepts.

So do the Abrahamic religions if you do not fall victim to the literal, and confuse the "map for the territory"

Your overwhelming problem

Interesting article Hcap,

“There is evidence of some level of contact between the Indus Valley Civilization and the Near East. Commercial, religious, and artistic connections have been recorded in Sumerian documents, where the Indus valley people are referred to as Meluhhaites and the Indus valley is called Meluhha. The following account has been dated to about 2000 BCE: "The Meluhhaites, the men of the black land, bring to Naram-Sin of Agade all kind of exotic wares." (Haywood, p. 76, The Curse of Agade)”

I have read elsewhere that the religions of the Egyptians and Mesopotamians were directly influenced by those of the Indus Valley and were their precursors...to some extent.

It would be interesting also the read what the religion of the Aryans who settled in the Indus region around 1500BCE looked like as well, since then the influence spread was known as Indo-Aryan.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I never had a Hindu knock on my door either spreading their good news -- not even their sacred cow manure. Nor have I ever heard of a Hindus evangelizing.

What has that got to do with anything?

Originally Posted by boxcar

I omitted a lot of religions because, as Hcap is so fond of pointing out to us so often, they share this common behavior (in this case), in that none of them have any good news to share with the world. No, not one! But Christianity is unique. Christians have the greatest news in the world to share with the world!

So good news is true. Bad news is false. Is that it?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Have you ever been evangelized by a Buddhist? I haven't.

Buddhism is not a religion. It's a philosophy.

Originally Posted by boxcar

All those books out there that I haven't read have this in common:

Since you have not read them you cannot possibly know what they have in common, or how they differ?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Tell me, Mr. Actor, which other god in any other religion has done such a thing?

Since there is zero evidence that any god exists at all logic dictates that no god, including yours, has ever done anything.

Originally Posted by boxcar

If for no other reason at all...God is worthy of our love, adoration and reverence just for his pure genius -- just for his infinite knowledge and wisdom and his power to implement his will -- in spite of all his fallen, hate-filled, rebellious imagers resisting him and even outright rejecting him. To my mind, that kind of God is more than impressive. I'm awe-struck by such a loving and all-wise God.

So it does not matter that your god is a dick. What's important is that he's an omnipotent dick who will give you an omnipotent kick in your finite balls if you don't continually kiss his omnipresent ass.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You are basing Christianity on it's predecessor Judaism, which in fact ignore most of Christianity.

In a similar derivation, Hinduism is based on it's predecessors, notably...

Religions of the Indus Valley Civilization .

An ancient civilization located in what is Pakistan and northwest India today, on the fertile flood plain of the Indus River and its vicinity. Evidence of religious practices in this area date back approximately to 5500 BCE.

Btw, if you insist on using the oldest questionable Judaic archeology, you lode the oldest "title"

However I studied a school of philosophy stemming from Adi Shankara, and practice a meditation derived from this modern form of Hinduism. His Advaita ("non-dualism") interpretation of the sruti postulates the identity of the Self (Atman) and the Whole (Brahman[note 4]). According to Adi Shankara, the one unchanging entity (Brahman) alone is real, while changing entities do not have absolute existence. Taoism and other eastern teachings share very similar concepts.

So do the Abrahamic religions if you do not fall victim to the literal, and confuse the "map for the territory"

Your overwhelming problem

Of course, Christianity is grounded very solidly in Judaism! What else could it possibly be grounded in? (How often have I said that Christianity is nothing less than fulfilled Judaism!?) Jesus was a Jew from the tribe of Judah, from the line of David and all his chosen disciples were Jews. And as I pointed out in my last installment of the summaries that it was the Greco-Roman Jews in Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost who actually functioned as Christ's gospel cells in all the cities and lands that they returned to after the Feast was over. It was these thousands of believing Jews who kick-started the spread of the gospel throughout Asia Minor under Roman rule. But Acts 2 recorded just the first Gospel Wave into the Roman empire.

The second recorded gospel wave followed not too long after. Acts 8 tells us that a great persecution by unbelieving Jews broke out against believing Jews in Jerusalem right after Stephen was stoned to death for his faith in the Messiah. The believers were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. Eventually, I'm sure many of those eventually migrated north to various parts of Asia Minor, as well.

Then of course, we have detailed accounts of all three of Paul's missionary journeys into Asia Minor after his conversion. And Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin, a Pharisee of Pharisees, to boot.

So...yeah...I would say, along with scripture, that Christ's "salvation is from the Jews". Kinda ironic, wouldn't you say? But then... the scriptures are filled with paradoxes and ironies.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...I can see what you mean. With our sinful nature, it's really, really, really tough to not wax self-righteous and to see ourselves as God sees us; but instead fault God for all the humanity's miseries. (In fact...let me rephrase that -- it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to accept the bad news about ourselves.) So,because so many of us cannot get past the bad news about ourselves, we totally ignore the great news about God's gracious and kind and merciful remedy for sinful humanity.

But thanks be to God for his saving grace; for so that many in the world have had our eyes open to see the bad news and then run to God for forgiveness that can only be had in Jesus. How many, no one knows. But John tells us in Revelation that saints in heaven who have come from every nation, all tribes and peoples and tongues are so numerous that no one could count them (Rev 7:9). I think that is really great news!

Long ago (and maybe still today), people lacked the scientific understand to see naturally occurring events and processes correctly.

I really can really sympathize with these early humans as they struggled to make some sense of the world...the invention of religion and magic were no doubt steps along the self-same path leading to more and more enlightened ways of thinking and understanding things...so I shouldn’t be so caustic in my reactions toward religion in general...some of the greatest scientific minds also dabbled in metaphysics, Isaac Newton as an example, par excellence...

But I believe it is both our duty and responsibility to have the courage to move past those lower steps of understanding wherever we find them...I know it is terrifying for those who have built a life and family around age-old traditions to adjust to new ways of thinking...Not that they must completely abandon those, but they ought to at least acknowledge that scientific thinking and method and worldview is just as reasonable (if not more so) than religious, or magical world views.

Humility is often invoked as the first step toward redemption...but there are more forms of redemption than just one...it is important for all of us to be humble enough about our beliefs to admit that those self-same beliefs can, will, and do change and evolve over time...this basic humility works in manifold ways to re-adjust our understanding of the world...our universe is a dynamic place, not a static one.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Interesting article Hcap,

“There is evidence of some level of contact between the Indus Valley Civilization and the Near East. Commercial, religious, and artistic connections have been recorded in Sumerian documents, where the Indus valley people are referred to as Meluhhaites and the Indus valley is called Meluhha. The following account has been dated to about 2000 BCE: "The Meluhhaites, the men of the black land, bring to Naram-Sin of Agade all kind of exotic wares." (Haywood, p. 76, The Curse of Agade)”

I have read elsewhere that the religions of the Egyptians and Mesopotamians were directly influenced by those of the Indus Valley and were their precursors...to some extent.

It would be interesting also the read what the religion of the Aryans who settled in the Indus region around 1500BCE looked like as well, since then the influence spread was known as Indo-Aryan.

The archaeological roots of many religions are vague. The underling Hebrew religion is not the wars and so-called "historical" struggle of the Israelites. Nor is it a literal rendition of an external deity slaughtering opposing tribes.

Similarly the Bhagavad Gita is not about an external war. The Bhagavad-Gita concerns the internal war each human being must eventually wage for self-mastery. (The Gita an Epic of Hinduism)

Much distortion and miss-translations compounded by huge historical games of telephone, reduce the Abrahamic religions into irrational ranting, trying to make sense of nonsense handed down over many generations. Garbage in garbage out trying to explain the accumulated craziness. Notice how convoluted and twisted the rationalizations become. Back fitted up the kazoo. That's why boxcar's notion of gods "justice" gets so overly complicated and ridiculous

There are recurring themes among many religions however. Believing an all-loving god literally murdered infants is not one of the better ones

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Long ago (and maybe still today), people lacked the scientific understand to see naturally occurring events and processes correctly.

I really can really sympathize with these early humans as they struggled to make some sense of the world...the invention of religion and magic were no doubt steps along the self-same path leading to more and more enlightened ways of thinking and understanding things...so I shouldn’t be so caustic in my reactions toward religion in general...some of the greatest scientific minds also dabbled in metaphysics, Isaac Newton as an example, par excellence...

But I believe it is both our duty and responsibility to have the courage to move past those lower steps of understanding wherever we find them...I know it is terrifying for those who have built a life and family around age-old traditions to adjust to new ways of thinking...Not that they must completely abandon those, but they ought to at least acknowledge that scientific thinking and method and worldview is just as reasonable (if not more so) than religious, or magical world views.

Humility is often invoked as the first step toward redemption...but there are more forms of redemption than just one...it is important for all of us to be humble enough about our beliefs to admit that those self-same beliefs can, will, and do change and evolve over time...this basic humility works in manifold ways to re-adjust our understanding of the world...our universe is a dynamic place, not a static one.

The one thing that science cannot do is prove or disprove God's existence. Metaphysical Reality is beyond the realm of scientific investigation. Humans are equipped to only observe and report what they think they have seen in the physical world or learned of it.

This is why humility must be the very first step to finding God. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble (Jas 4:6). Humility is indeed the first step toward eternal redemption.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

The archaeological roots of many religions are vague. The underling Hebrew religion is not the wars and so-called "historical" struggle of the Israelites. Nor is it a literal rendition of an external deity slaughtering opposing tribes.

Similarly the Bhagavad Gita is not about an external war. The Bhagavad-Gita concerns the internal war each human being must eventually wage for self-mastery. (The Gita an Epic of Hinduism)

Much distortion and miss-translations compounded by huge historical games of telephone, reduce the Abrahamic religions into irrational ranting, trying to make sense of nonsense handed down over many generations. Garbage in garbage out trying to explain the accumulated craziness. Notice how convoluted and twisted the rationalizations become. Back fitted up the kazoo. That's why boxcar's notion of gods "justice" gets so overly complicated and ridiculous

There are recurring themes among many religions however. Believing an all-loving god literally murdered infants is not one of the better ones

There are no distortions or mistranslations compounded by games of telephone. Nor is anything twisted or convoluted or irrational. These are just your lame excuses for not wanting to accept God's Word in its sensible sense. Once you trash the grammatical-historical context of the bible, one can derive numerous different messages from The Book. But the fact remains: There is only one story line to the bible, even though its main plot has many sub-plots. The coherent and cohesive story line and plot were laid out for all to see in the summaries I wrote.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The one thing that science cannot do is prove or disprove God's existence. Metaphysical Reality is beyond the realm of scientific investigation. Humans are equipped to only observe and report what they think they have seen in the physical world or learned of it.

This is why humility must be the very first step to finding God. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble (Jas 4:6). Humility is indeed the first step toward eternal redemption.

Agreed...but a controversy looms over what constitutes redemption and the nature and meaning of eternity, a concept quite beyond the understanding of mere mortals...

..we, if fact, have no real understanding of what “eternity” or for that matter, “infinity” means...that also holds true for rather bizarre, and totally abstract concepts like “omniscience” “omnipresence” “omnipotent” “everlasting”, “all-caring, all-loving”, etc...

...there is no evidence for any of those...they are just “magical” terms flung around and everybody nods their heads as if they understand these “pseudo-concepts”...so when anyone uses those terms as supposed attributes of some imagined deity...how can anything but confusion and error arise....?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What has that got to do with anything?

So good news is true. Bad news is false. Is that it?

Buddhism is not a religion. It's a philosophy.

Since you have not read them you cannot possibly know what they have in common, or how they differ?

Since there is zero evidence that any god exists at all logic dictates that no god, including yours, has ever done anything.

So it does not matter that your god is a dick. What's important is that he's an omnipotent dick who will give you an omnipotent kick in your finite balls if you don't continually kiss his omnipresent ass.

Ohh...you're waxing like Dickie Poo Dawkins today. A little angry are you?

Again, I don't have to read all the religions or dumb philosophies to know that biblical Christianity is totally unique -- as unique and distinct as the divine author of the bible. if any of the other religions or philosophies had a really urgent message to share with the world that was also incredibly great news, their evangelistic efforts would be widely known. But alas...they are as silent as those who go down to the grave. Now...there's a common thread for you!