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01-05-2019, 08:14 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocko699
Robert,
Just got home and watched replay. Really weird race. Coliseum broke slowly, carried wide in 1st turn, Talamo fighting him the whole way and just was so rank it seemed to me.
Looks like this one really needs to grow up mentally. Interested to see if Joe gets to ride him again.
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I didnt see anything in that race that I could fault the rider. Horse was being asked to do a lot and the winner had proven class.
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01-05-2019, 08:19 PM
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#17
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Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I didnt see anything in that race that I could fault the rider. Horse was being asked to do a lot and the winner had proven class.
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I never said it was Talamo's ride did I? I said he was fighting the horse. BIG DIFFERENCE.
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01-05-2019, 08:24 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocko699
I never said it was Talamo's ride did I? I said he was fighting the horse. BIG DIFFERENCE.
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I dont think he was fighting anything, the horse was rank and in a horrid spot, and while you didnt directly blame him the comment "i wonder if he rides him again" is a pretty decent assignment of blame.
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01-05-2019, 08:28 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,626
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Good thing I didn't get carried away betting that chalk. I'm more skeptical when Baffert sends a horse to a cheap prep without an A-list pilot. Coliseum is more bred like a turf horse to begin with... but I felt was plenty good to beat this troupe. What I call the "real" prep season (Holy Bull, Robert B) starts in early February and we get the next future pool February 8-10. I'm inclined to hit Game Winner again at this point.
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01-05-2019, 08:31 PM
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#20
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Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I dont think he was fighting anything, the horse was rank and in a horrid spot, and while you didnt directly blame him the comment "i wonder if he rides him again" is a pretty decent assignment of blame.
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BS, just stop.
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01-05-2019, 08:44 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f2tornado
Good thing I didn't get carried away betting that chalk. I'm more skeptical when Baffert sends a horse to a cheap prep without an A-list pilot. Coliseum is more bred like a turf horse to begin with... but I felt was plenty good to beat this troupe. What I call the "real" prep season (Holy Bull, Robert B) starts in early February and we get the next future pool February 8-10. I'm inclined to hit Game Winner again at this point.
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Talamo has been riding most of his good horses lately, a little bit still with Van Dyke.
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01-05-2019, 09:20 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,601
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Game Winner flattered.
Coliseum just didn't have it today.
That being said....
I wonder how much longer Talamo continues to get top stock from Baffert.
Talamo has never liked to send his horses(usually the Baffert lot likes to be near the front),and he's not at his best with grade one animals.......aka.....tight collar when the horse/race means something.
He's had plenty of chances in the past to perform on the biggest stages....it just doesn't work for him........little bits of trouble...... track bias errors......dicey pace moves at the wrong time.
Baffert has always soured on his jockeys for whatever reason......even when they've had large amounts of success for him........see Mike Smith/Martin Garcia.
The Mike Smith one is really baffling.......I know he still gets a few top notch.....but not like before.
Last edited by taxicab; 01-05-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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01-06-2019, 02:54 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: South of heaven
Posts: 385
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It's not surprising that Coliseum lost... I picked Sueno to win but Gunmetal Gray definitely had more experience and class today. We've all gotten used to seeing horses go from maiden wins straight to graded stakes company, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea, especially when dealing with these temperamental types.
Last edited by Someday Silent; 01-06-2019 at 02:57 AM.
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01-06-2019, 03:32 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Someday Silent
It's not surprising that Coliseum lost... I picked Sueno to win but Gunmetal Gray definitely had more experience and class today. We've all gotten used to seeing horses go from maiden wins straight to graded stakes company, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea, especially when dealing with these temperamental types.
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This. That's ridiculous taking 3/5 on a one out maiden winner in a G3, no matter how impressive the maiden win may have looked. And frankly, the maiden win proved nothing. He cleared a 6 horse field with his stable mate the only other horse shorter than 8/1, and basically put on a public workout from the 5/8ths pole to the wire.
I had no dog in the fight, but when I realized he had just the maiden win to his credit with about 10 minutes to post, I looked at the replay of his win real quick and thought, welllllllll, OK, we'll see.
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01-06-2019, 04:02 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taxicab
Game Winner flattered.
Coliseum just didn't have it today.
That being said....
I wonder how much longer Talamo continues to get top stock from Baffert.
Talamo has never liked to send his horses(usually the Baffert lot likes to be near the front),and he's not at his best with grade one animals.......aka.....tight collar when the horse/race means something.
He's had plenty of chances in the past to perform on the biggest stages....it just doesn't work for him........little bits of trouble...... track bias errors......dicey pace moves at the wrong time.
Baffert has always soured on his jockeys for whatever reason......even when they've had large amounts of success for him........see Mike Smith/Martin Garcia.
The Mike Smith one is really baffling.......I know he still gets a few top notch.....but not like before.
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Can't forget the late great Garret Gomez.
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01-06-2019, 12:47 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
This. That's ridiculous taking 3/5 on a one out maiden winner in a G3, no matter how impressive the maiden win may have looked. And frankly, the maiden win proved nothing. He cleared a 6 horse field with his stable mate the only other horse shorter than 8/1, and basically put on a public workout from the 5/8ths pole to the wire.
I had no dog in the fight, but when I realized he had just the maiden win to his credit with about 10 minutes to post, I looked at the replay of his win real quick and thought, welllllllll, OK, we'll see.
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Its been good advice but once someone told me always bet against a mdn winner being asked to do multiple things for the first time, two turns, graded stakes winners, and at 3/5....thats enough to take a shot in that field.
Its interesting that baffert went right to a graded stakes race but with Justify he sought out an alw race around two turns for the first time. I guess to avoid what happened, a case where things went wrong and they would need to regroup which they didnt have time for last year. Thats what makes the Justify run so impressive, the margin for error was zero. Lots of pressure with a horse like that.
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01-06-2019, 02:30 PM
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#27
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Race Player
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Home of the brave.
Posts: 1,044
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Speed Bias ?
Splits
23.46; (23.49); 46.95; (24.96); 1:11.64; (13.22); 1:24.86; (14:10) 1:38.96
6 to 7 – 13.22
7 to 8 – 14.1
6 to 8 – 27.32
~
Speed bias for the meet @ 8fl: 81%, for the week: 100%, interesting the winner came last to first. I reviewed the charts for the day, zero dirt races wire to wire.
Gotta give credit to the trainer of the winner here, had the horse well placed and brought him in fresh . . . Money Mike read the track and they win it; nicely done by both. Lookin' forward to seein' what Gunmetal Gray has for em' @ 9fl. No doubt he'll be lockin' horns w/Game Winner or Improbable sometime soon.
Coliseum broke a bit tardy, had he broke correctly and gone w/the leaders, I doubt the outcome would have been much different. Much Better ran a nice race in what may have been against the bias, had he not switched to his left lead at 7f, I think he wins it.
Coliseum will no doubt come back a better horse, but the competition won't be gettin' any easier. Much Better was all in and it doesn't appear he can stay despite being on the wrong lead, but @ 600k no doubt they'll be looking for another spot.
A fun race to watch. Gunmetal Gray gets the priceless Derby points . . . and is Number 4 on the Derby Leaderboard.
__________________
Nothing endures but change.
- Heraclitus 535-475 BC
Last edited by Blenheim; 01-06-2019 at 02:33 PM.
Reason: Typo . . .
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01-07-2019, 02:01 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenheim
6 to 8 – 27.32
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That final quarter is pedestrian. For what it's worth, i knocked Justify running a 26.09 FQ in the same distance allowance last year... but Justify's final clock was 3.23 seconds faster than Gunmetal, albeit with sealed mud. I'll try to beat him going longer.
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01-07-2019, 05:05 PM
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#29
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f2tornado
That final quarter is pedestrian. For what it's worth, i knocked Justify running a 26.09 FQ in the same distance allowance last year... but Justify's final clock was 3.23 seconds faster than Gunmetal, albeit with sealed mud. I'll try to beat him going longer.
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The final quarter for Gunmetal Gray, since he was still in last with 1/4 to go, listed as 4 3/4 lengths behind, is a bit faster. I have him at ~26.64.
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01-07-2019, 05:12 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
The final quarter for Gunmetal Gray, since he was still in last with 1/4 to go, listed as 4 3/4 lengths behind, is a bit faster. I have him at ~26.64.
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Is that time unadjusted? Not nearly as important as adjusted time. But you already know that since adjusting times is what you do and do it well.
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