 |
|
04-19-2017, 05:13 PM
|
#46
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,548
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Right, but there is no way that is an 8-1 shot for the title as Ron mentioned. I'd also say they were projected to win that many only because of Russell Westbrook.
|
As we all know, the preseason odds are not necessarily the odds-makers' own opinion on what will actually occur on the court. The odds are always shaded towards the more "popular" teams, and players. I brought all this up in order to show that the Rockets were not really considered to be a better team than the Thunder going into this season...although it played out that way this year. Even with the departure of Durant...the vast majority of the NBA "authorities" were predicting a better year for the Thunder than for the Rockets at the beginning of this season...preseason odds aside.
No matter how you slice it...the Rockets overachieved to a much greater extent than the Thunder did this year...and Harden was the reason. Consequently...I can't see how the MVP race can be as "cut-and-dried" as it seems to be. Westbrook's performance this year, although "historically" significant...did not affect the performance of his team to the extent that Harden's did. And that's what the "MVP" should be about...IMO.
If the award were called "NBA Player of the Year"...then it would imply more of an "individual achievement"...and Westbrook would be the clear choice. But "MVP" brings the team aspect into the conversation...and Harden wins in that comparison, IMO.
__________________
Live to play another day.
Last edited by thaskalos; 04-19-2017 at 05:27 PM.
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 07:49 PM
|
#47
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
As we all know, the preseason odds are not necessarily the odds-makers' own opinion on what will actually occur on the court. The odds are always shaded towards the more "popular" teams, and players. I brought all this up in order to show that the Rockets were not really considered to be a better team than the Thunder going into this season...although it played out that way this year. Even with the departure of Durant...the vast majority of the NBA "authorities" were predicting a better year for the Thunder than for the Rockets at the beginning of this season...preseason odds aside.
No matter how you slice it...the Rockets overachieved to a much greater extent than the Thunder did this year...and Harden was the reason. Consequently...I can't see how the MVP race can be as "cut-and-dried" as it seems to be. Westbrook's performance this year, although "historically" significant...did not affect the performance of his team to the extent that Harden's did. And that's what the "MVP" should be about...IMO.
If the award were called "NBA Player of the Year"...then it would imply more of an "individual achievement"...and Westbrook would be the clear choice. But "MVP" brings the team aspect into the conversation...and Harden wins in that comparison, IMO.
|
I guess that is where we disagree. I don't think Westbrook should be punished because Vegas thought OKC would win a few more games. Harden is a fabulous player, no doubt about it. But as I've said before, switch the two and I don't think either team changes much. All that changes is Russ probably leads the league in assists and Harden leads the league in scoring. The Thunder were the worst three point shooting team in the NBA. If you remove both from their teams, the Rockets are a MUCH better team. That, and of course the history, gives a slight edge to Russ for me. What gives him a bigger edge is he was a way, way better player in clutch time than Harden was. It isn't even close.
Last edited by cj; 04-19-2017 at 07:51 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 08:46 PM
|
#48
|
|
Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
|
Imagine if Westbrook, Harden and Durant were on the same team, how many championships would they win?-----ZERO.
Or maybe if they each played on a different team?-----ZERO(so far)
All the individual talent in the world, and yet it all boils down to playing as a TEAM that wins Championships.....
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 08:52 PM
|
#49
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Imagine if Westbrook, Harden and Durant were on the same team, how many championships would they win?-----ZERO.
Or maybe if they each played on a different team?-----ZERO(so far)
All the individual talent in the world, and yet it all boils down to playing as a TEAM that wins Championships.....
|
Stars usually win championships. The more, the better. Teamwork only gets you so far.
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 08:55 PM
|
#50
|
|
Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Stars usually win championships. The more, the better. Teamwork only gets you so far.
|
Not the stars of the OKC Thunder, past and present.....Maybe it was all Coach Brooks' fault.... 
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 09:35 PM
|
#51
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Woodbine
Posts: 2,657
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
All the individual talent in the world, and yet it all boils down to playing as a TEAM that wins Championships.....
|
LeBron plays as a team?
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 09:39 PM
|
#52
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Not the stars of the OKC Thunder, past and present.....Maybe it was all Coach Brooks' fault.... |
They were too young when together, then injuries detailed a few seasons. They're certainly good enough.
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 09:40 PM
|
#53
|
|
Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoofedInTheChest
LeBron plays as a team?
|
Didn't win crap until he went to Miami and DWade taught him how to win as a TEAM......Took what he learned back to Cleveland, who assembled a good supporting cast in his absence, and won it all there as well....
|
|
|
|
|
04-19-2017, 10:00 PM
|
#54
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Watch OKC when Russ sits. That is all you need to know about his cast.
|
|
|
|
|
04-20-2017, 07:15 PM
|
#55
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,548
|
From the looks of things...it doesn't seem like Russell will stay in Oklahoma for long.
__________________
Live to play another day.
|
|
|
|
|
04-21-2017, 01:32 AM
|
#56
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
From the looks of things...it doesn't seem like Russell will stay in Oklahoma for long.
|
Tough to say at this point. I wouldn't blame him if he wants to go. He is getting to the point where he might not survive a rebuild.
|
|
|
|
|
04-21-2017, 04:05 AM
|
#57
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,548
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Tough to say at this point. I wouldn't blame him if he wants to go. He is getting to the point where he might not survive a rebuild.
|
After watching the last Thunder game in its entirety...I must say that you were right, and I was dead wrong. Without Westbrook on the floor...the Thunder is the worst team in the league.
__________________
Live to play another day.
|
|
|
|
|
04-21-2017, 12:45 PM
|
#58
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
|
Rondo out with a broken thumb. This isn't going to be easy for the Bulls to overcome. I see Boston giving Grant any open shot he wants, and they spend more work on defending Butler and Wade. Grant a career 30% 3 point shooter will get all the open looks he wants.
|
|
|
|
|
04-21-2017, 04:34 PM
|
#59
|
|
@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
After watching the last Thunder game in its entirety...I must say that you were right, and I was dead wrong. Without Westbrook on the floor...the Thunder is the worst team in the league.
|
They might beat the Nets in a best of 7. It would be close.
|
|
|
|
|
04-23-2017, 05:45 PM
|
#60
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
|
I have trouble watching a Houston game. Between all of Harden's flopping, and the 4 steps to the basket without a dribble, its not what I want to watch. There's always been an issue with "borderline" traveling calls, but the league has to put a stop to the "Euro Step" nonsense. What is the point of having rules if they are blatantly neglected?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
