Classic kick back

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Ok........now tell me what this one's thinking?

Thank the Horse God my lower half is hidden in the water.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by joanied

get down and dirty, do everything...

You mean like sheath cleaning?

doubt you've done anything like that...you might just have to admit I probably know more about them than you ever will...

You see, it's the sheer arrogance of a reply like this that gets me. You simply assume because certain people focus on the handicapping, that they can "never know more about them" then you do. I don't think I've seen one person in this thread CLAIM that they KNOW MORE about horses than you do...have you?

but, I don't think you care anyway....why should you!

Another arrogant statement. Yes...why should we care joanie? After all, we're nothing but cold-hearted gamblers who would sell our own mothers out to cash a bet...never mind caring about a damned horse we see as simply a machine or a number, right Joanie?

BTW, I love how some of our most vocal Zenyatta backers (carlonr tops on the list) have disappeared since she lost the Classic. I love how some of the folks who predicted that if Zenyatta lost, all of us "bashers" would be having a field day starting thread after thread of how badly Zenyatta sucks and how her losing the Classic proves this.

Of course, none of that happened...they were wrong...again...

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Ok........now tell me what this one's thinking?

"Damn, this water's cold!"

[joanied]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You mean like sheath cleaning? You see, it's the sheer arrogance of a reply like this that gets me. You simply assume because certain people focus on the handicapping, that they can "never know more about them" then you do. I don't think I've seen one person in this thread CLAIM that they KNOW MORE about horses than you do...have you?Another arrogant statement. Yes...why should we care joanie? After all, we're nothing but cold-hearted gamblers who would sell our own mothers out to cash a bet...never mind caring about a damned horse we see as simply a machine or a number, right Joanie?
If my post came across as agrogant, it sure wasn't meant to...I am defending myself, which is something many posters seem to have to do here, PA...cj assumed I was ridiculous in posting that it was easy to read her face in that photo...I try not to assume anything about anyone here...but if I feel I'm being attacked, then I got to defend my position...I have no doubt there are members here that are experts with horses, and wouldn't it really be ridiculous for me to claim otherwise.
I did notice that when discussions started about Life At Ten's race that the handicappers here were concerned about their wagers...you draw whatever conclusion you want from that fact.
BTW, I love how some of our most vocal Zenyatta backers (carlonr tops on the list) have disappeared since she lost the Classic. I love how some of the folks who predicted that if Zenyatta lost, all of us "bashers" would be having a field day starting thread after thread of how badly Zenyatta sucks and how her losing the Classic proves this.

Of course, none of that happened...they were wrong...again...

I won't address why members left...it has nothing to do with me.

[Valuist]

Who invented kickback? Was it Al Gore or Zenyatta?

Since its been around for decades and decades, why would it be brought up now?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by joanied

I won't address why members left...it has nothing to do with me.

I've been doing this for 10 plus years. Members come and go all the time. My web stats indicate this board is still gaining in popularity even after 11 years and even with the current claims that the sport itself is "dying."

If certain members feel the need to leave, that's really beyond my control. I do everything in my power to prevent that from happening, but I also have to maintain a fairly open board where people can feel free to comment.

People are criticized here all the time. I know you think there is a "clique" here...you aren't the only one...but people who are considered part of that "clique" such as the little guy, cj, and others, are routinely criticized here on this board...The crap that has been thrown their way, I'm sure you would consider it an "attack" if it were thrown your way. TLG has taken loads of crap on here for his on-air style, his handicapping abilities, his association with Beyer...you name it...

cj's numbers have been criticized multiple times by folks who don't believe in using figures to evaluate a horse, and he himself has been criticized for his style on this board.

People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. I can't change that.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Who invented kickback? Was it Al Gore or Zenyatta?

Since its been around for decades and decades, why would it be brought up now?

The funny thing is that what many of us said would get her beat on dirt is now being used as an excuse of why she was beaten on dirt.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've been doing this for 10 plus years. Members come and go all the time. My web stats indicate this board is still gaining in popularity even after 11 years and even with the current claims that the sport itself is "dying."

If certain members feel the need to leave, that's really beyond my control. I do everything in my power to prevent that from happening, but I also have to maintain a fairly open board where people can feel free to comment.

People are criticized here all the time. I know you think there is a "clique" here...you aren't the only one...but people who are considered part of that "clique" such as the little guy, cj, and others, are routinely criticized here on this board...The crap that has been thrown their way, I'm sure you would consider it an "attack" if it were thrown your way. TLG has taken loads of crap on here for his on-air style, his handicapping abilities, his association with Beyer...you name it...

cj's numbers have been criticized multiple times by folks who don't believe in using figures to evaluate a horse, and he himself has been criticized for his style on this board.

People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. I can't change that.

I said I wouldn't address that, PA...it has nothing to do with me, but guess you felt you needed to explain it anyway.

[Grits]

PaceAdvantage wrote: People are criticized here all the time. I know you think there is a "clique" here...you aren't the only one...but people who are considered part of that "clique" such as the little guy, cj, and others, are routinely criticized here on this board...The crap that has been thrown their way, I'm sure you would consider it an "attack" if it were thrown your way. TLG has taken loads of crap on here for his on-air style, his handicapping abilities, his association with Beyer...you name it...

cj's numbers have been criticized multiple times by folks who don't believe in using figures to evaluate a horse, and he himself has been criticized for his style on this board.

People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. I can't change that.

An observation:

Its odd that the only clique recognized here, repeatedly, seems to be this one--involving those already named. Why is it the OTHER clique is not ever recognized, spoken of, or ADMITTED to as existing--the one lead by Winter Triangle, who attempted to destroy this website earlier this year with private messages and posts on other websites indicating this place is nothing more than a bunch of degenerate gamblers who care nothing about horses, instead, only about making money? While also disparaging the reputation of members here?

If one really wants to get down to calling a damn spade a spade, why is THIS clique never spoken of? Why is the harm, done with intent, that this clique created never mentioned as having caused a great divide to this place?

DaHoss and TLG were two of the most knowledgable men on this website--they're gone, and the website loses because of it. Were they salty, yes, could very much be. Still, tough--no one's perfect--what I've gained from the two has been abundant! I'd put the pure concrete knowledge of either one of them up against anyone nationwide. Not only where handicapping is concerned by where RACING HISTORY is up for discussion as well.

Winter Triangle has spent months attempting to have others rally around her skill, her expertise and yes, that's fine. She can handicap. But as far as her integrity, here, at Pace Advantage--she shot it straight to hell last summer. One doesn't set about to undermine the infrastructure of a website, its owner and its moderators--with over ten years experience.

Much like Miesque, WinterT shot her own self in the foot. No one assisted her. And when I met her last Spring at Oaklawn, no one could have convinced me this could EVER be possible.

I won't address why members left...it has nothing to do with me.

And Joanie, this is where you may have a sure answer. I don't. But I can admit, readily, that I can see this picture is being painted as far, far too one sided.

There's always two sides to a problem. Always. And all of what has gone on here wasn't the result of people disagreeing about Zenyatta--problems surpassed any dialogue about Zenyatta a long while back. Cliques pose problems for everyone--one's much better off when they can step back make their own decisions without the influence of others, without the gathering of others in their respective corner who may be likeminded and obviously behind them.

Cj was tough on you yesterday, tough as hell. Still, there's plenty to be noted regarding the skill which you both have!!! On this FACT, I don't believe I could be more honest. And this is far more important, and to be respected far more than getting into any pissing contest.

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've been doing this for 10 plus years. Members come and go all the time. My web stats indicate this board is still gaining in popularity even after 11 years and even with the current claims that the sport itself is "dying."

If certain members feel the need to leave, that's really beyond my control. I do everything in my power to prevent that from happening, but I also have to maintain a fairly open board where people can feel free to comment.

People are criticized here all the time. I know you think there is a "clique" here...you aren't the only one...but people who are considered part of that "clique" such as the little guy, cj, and others, are routinely criticized here on this board...The crap that has been thrown their way, I'm sure you would consider it an "attack" if it were thrown your way. TLG has taken loads of crap on here for his on-air style, his handicapping abilities, his association with Beyer...you name it...

cj's numbers have been criticized multiple times by folks who don't believe in using figures to evaluate a horse, and he himself has been criticized for his style on this board.

People see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. I can't change that.

I take solace from this post, PA. Thanks.

Routinely, I feel belittled and diminished after posting here at the end of each day.

This gives me the inspiration to continue contributing.

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by Grits

An observation:

Its odd that the only clique recognized here, repeatedly, seems to be this one--involving those already named. Why is it the OTHER clique is not ever recognized, spoken of, or ADMITTED to as existing--the one lead by Winter Triangle, who attempted to destroy this website earlier this year with private messages and posts on other websites indicating this place is nothing more than a bunch of degenerate gamblers who care nothing about horses, instead, only about making money? While also disparaging the reputation of members here?

If one really wants to get down to calling a damn spade a spade, why is THIS clique never spoken of? Why is the harm, done with intent, that this clique created never mentioned as having caused a great divide to this place?

DaHoss and TLG were two of the most knowledgable men on this website--they're gone, and the website loses because of it. Were they salty, yes, could very much be. Still, tough--no one's perfect--what I've gained from the two has been abundant! I'd put the pure concrete knowledge of either one of them up against anyone nationwide. Not only where handicapping is concerned by where RACING HISTORY is up for discussion as well.

Winter Triangle has spent months attempting to have others rally around her skill, her expertise and yes, that's fine. She can handicap. But as far as her integrity, here, at Pace Advantage--she shot it straight to hell last summer. One doesn't set about to undermine the infrastructure of a website, its owner and its moderators--with over ten years experience.

Much like Miesque, WinterT shot her own self in the foot. No one assisted her. And when I met her last Spring at Oaklawn, no one could have convinced me this could EVER be possible.

[/color]

And Joanie, this is where you may have a sure answer. I don't. But I can admit, readily, that I can see this picture is being painted as far, far too one sided.

There's always two sides to a problem. Always. And all of what has gone on here wasn't the result of people disagreeing about Zenyatta--problems surpassed any dialogue about Zenyatta a long while back. Cliques pose problems for everyone--one's much better off when they can step back make their own decisions without the influence of others, without the gathering of others in their respective corner who may be likeminded and obviously behind them.

Cj was tough on you yesterday, tough as hell. Still, there's plenty to be noted regarding the skill which you both have!!! On this FACT, I don't believe I could be more honest. And this is far more important, and to be respected far more than getting into any pissing contest.

*Well written*.

[Valuist]

Some interesting stuff above. I wasn't on here much for a couple of months but I find the above post referencing Winter Triangle fascinating. This isn't directed toward Grits but Winter Triangle: you go to a site called Pace Advantage, wouldn't it occur to one that this is a HANDICAPPING site? And not a "horsey-lover" site? The site is PACE advantage, not PETA Advantage.

[WinterTriangle]

Originally Posted by Grits

An observation:
the one lead by Winter Triangle, .......... and posts on other websites indicating this place is nothing more than a bunch of degenerate gamblers who care nothing about horses, instead, only about making money?

I have read, over the years, a number of public posts about PA forum on other websites. But I have never contributed to them, nor started any.

(Not sure why you brought up Miesque, that is obviously something between you and her? I went back and looked at her last post here....it was apparently a personal argument between you and her. And now, you have one with me. )

Now.....Grits.....please give us links to the sites where my posts about this forum are located. If you're going to make an accusation, then you need to provide those forum posts that you say I made publically. I'm on several forums that I was on before this one, and have no problems with the admins.

The way this topic started out was a member posting a photo for another member.... which led to that person receiving a heap of ridicule, simply because they thought that a photo of a horse closing their eyes to mud "means something". It certainly didn't seem like a very bizarre observation, since people who were working on the track posted about mud clods flying and Zen not liking it in other places I read. But those conversations didn't get out of hand.

[WinterTriangle]

Originally Posted by Valuist

but Winter Triangle: you go to a site called Pace Advantage, wouldn't it occur to one that this is a HANDICAPPING site? And not a "horsey-lover" site? The site is PACE advantage, not PETA Advantage.

I post picks and handicapping insights, as well as opinions.

If there was anything about my posts that implied I thought it was PETA Advantage, why haven't you addressed my posts where you thought that was happening?

BTW, handicapping and horsey love don't have to be mutually exclusive, IMHO, anyway.

[Grits]

I'll not provide you or us . . . . here, with anything, Winter. I'm sorry you won't make this my responsibility.

You, though, can surely go back to the thread of this past summer begun by GM10, here at Pace Advantage which became a tome in length and breadth, the thread in which you were confronted and exposed regarding how you behaved towards the owner and the moderators of this website.

From that moment on--from that moment forward, your integrity became of concern--if not for others, admittedly, for me. Sorry, if you find my thought surprising, but it would behoove you to recall your actions and the dialogue contained in the thread--a good portion of which had to do with "clearing the air."

If there's any accusations of a clique here, it should, indeed, be made plural.

Only recently, in all the time I've been here, have I put one poster on ignore; it might be beneficial for me to make you the second. It would probably benefit you if you did the same to me.

EOC