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02-25-2008, 06:45 PM
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#46
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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War Pass went too slow early to get a big speed figure. I was pretty impressed with his ability to rate.
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02-25-2008, 06:52 PM
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#47
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Interesting point aly....I agree....Case in point....Secretariat's Belmont....one of the biggest Beyers EVER, and one where Big Red certainly wasn't pressed....
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And his son, General Assembly ran like a 134 never pressed.
Groovy used to put up some incredible Beyers. High 120's. Then he'd go to BC, be 4-5 and that would be that.
Bernardini was another example. And lets not forget Bellamy Road either
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02-25-2008, 06:58 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Interesting point aly....I agree....Case in point....Secretariat's Belmont....one of the biggest Beyers EVER, and one where Big Red certainly wasn't pressed....
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Well he certainly wasn't pressed at the end, but Sham was pressing him head and head for the first 6 furlongs in 46 1/5 and 109 4/5.
__________________
The ponies run, the girls are young
The odds are there to beat
You win a while, and then it's done
Your little winning streak
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02-25-2008, 07:05 PM
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#49
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,527
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Holy Bull was pressed like mad in the Travers....he was also pressed late....was the Travers his biggest career fig ever?
BTW, Holy Bull's Travers was perhaps the greatest individual performance ever from a horse who's best distance clearly wasn't 10 furlongs....
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02-25-2008, 07:06 PM
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#50
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by banacek
Well he certainly wasn't pressed at the end, but Sham was pressing him head and head for the first 6 furlongs in 46 1/5 and 109 4/5.
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True, but most advocates of the "could have run faster if pressed" mantra are usually citing the last portion of a race as evidence....
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02-25-2008, 07:08 PM
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#51
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Holy Bull was pressed like mad in the Travers....he was also pressed late....was the Travers his biggest career fig ever?
BTW, Holy Bull's Travers was perhaps the greatest individual performance ever from a horse who's best distance clearly wasn't 10 furlongs....
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He was a fabulous horse for sure. That was a great race but dont think his fastest Beyer wise. I think he ran in 120s for Met Handicap
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02-25-2008, 07:31 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 634
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Somebody please explain to me how a front runner is going to perform better when pressed??? I am really clueless on that point. Loose on the lead has lead to some really high figs that next time out the horse could not duplicate when pressed.
Holy Bull was one great race horse within his distance parameters imo. One of the best I have ever seen.
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02-25-2008, 08:30 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 285
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Some front runners have earned the best figures loose on the lead but they probably were not saving the horse and didn't worry much if the horse was going at top speed.
War Pass ran this race without any effort. And I saw him also under restraint in the first part of the race. This would also slow the speed figure. The comments also say (un-encouraged,easily)
He had to improve speed wise I am sure sitting on the sidelines for 4 months. Good horses byers ususally climb each month at this age. So we really don't know what he is able to do 4 months later until he is all out in a race. When not under restraint and all out, then we can see the speed figure and if it is any higher.
Last edited by ny0707ny; 02-25-2008 at 08:32 PM.
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02-25-2008, 08:47 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Holy Bull was pressed like mad in the Travers....he was also pressed late....was the Travers his biggest career fig ever?
BTW, Holy Bull's Travers was perhaps the greatest individual performance ever from a horse who's best distance clearly wasn't 10 furlongs....
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This is exactly what I was talking about,Just like human atheletes,intangibles like heart and courage mark Great ones.Long live the Bull 
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02-25-2008, 08:52 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 422
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By the same token, horses often run a top when they dead-heat.
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02-25-2008, 10:29 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 1,366
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett
In a 20 horse field , post position and a clean break may mean everything . Folks were talking wire / wire with Sinister Minister a couple years back . Blew away the field in the Blue Grass .. a disaster in the Derby .
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War Pass is better than Sinister Minister. His next best win after the Blue Grass was what, a 62500 sprint?
Speaking of the break, it doesn't get much pub these days but Seattle Slew broke flat-footed in the Kentucky Derby and had to bull his way through the field in the first quarter mile to reach the front. Speed horses just don't win at 1 1/4 miles after that, unless they are, well, Seattle Slew.
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02-26-2008, 12:06 AM
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#57
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Just Deplorable
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Posts: 8,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ny0707ny
What is amazing is War Pass got a 97 Beyer in the race Sunday.
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The DRF Leaderboard has him listed with a 102. Did those crafty Beyer Guys buy a piece of him and then adjust his fig upwards? I wouldn't put it past 'em. 
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