Religion II

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

No. I have confidence based on experience.

Why, because something happened in the past, you think it must happen in the future? The past is no guarantee of the future. Hume is very disappointed in you.

All you have is hope based in faith. Nothing more.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

No. See #4303.

See post #4306

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Man will never plumb all the mysterious depths to this universe.

I agree. I believe the universe is infinitely complex. Every day a new puzzle that makes life interesting! It's not the knowing. It's the finding out.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

I agree. I believe the universe is infinitely complex. Every day a new puzzle that makes life interesting! It's not the knowing. It's the finding out.

Proverbs 25:2 (NRSVCE)

2 It is the glory of God to conceal things,
but the glory of kings is to search things out.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Why, because something happened in the past, you think it must happen in the future?

Must is too strong a word. I have an expectation based on a knowledge of the processes involved, just as I have an expectation that the sun will rise tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

The past is no guarantee of the future.

Any day at the track will confirm that but I keep reading the past performances.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Hume is very disappointed in you.

Who?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

Must is too strong a word. I have an expectation based on a knowledge of the processes involved, just as I have an expectation that the sun will rise tomorrow.
Any day at the track will confirm that but I keep reading the past performances.
Who?

David Hume.

ex·pec·ta·tion
ˌekspekˈtāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
"reality had not lived up to expectations"
synonyms: supposition, assumption, presumption, conjecture, surmise, calculation, prediction, hope More
a belief that someone will or should achieve something.
"students had high expectations for their future"
synonyms: supposition, assumption, presumption, conjecture, surmise, calculation, prediction, hope

Expectation, another word for hope. All you have is hope, based in faith.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

David Hume.

Hume is dead and has been for over 200 years, ergo, he is not disappointed in anyone. Are you saying Hume was a purveyor of dogma?

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

ex·pec·ta·tion
ˌekspekˈtāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the value of a probability function at an inflection point, typically a maxima or a minima.

FTFY!

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

All you have is hope, based in faith.

faith
noun
belief without evidence.

I have evidence, ergo, my "expectation" is not based on faith.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Hume is dead and has been for over 200 years, ergo, he is not disappointed in anyone. Are you saying Hume was a purveyor of dogma?
FTFY!
faith
noun
belief without evidence.

I have evidence, ergo, my "expectation" is not based on faith.

That is only a partial definition of "faith". There is also a faith that is rational in nature. "Something that is believed especially with strong conviction". And when people believe with that kind of conviction it is because they have evidence. Example: I implicitly trust my wife because I know her and in knowing her all these years I have an abundance of evidence that she is trustworthy. My faith in her is rational, as opposed to the kind of blind/irrational faith that you have that scientists will unlock the mysteries of antimatter and matter. You don't KNOW they will. You just hope they will. You have zero evidence that any scientist will actually solve the riddle. Ever read the standard disclaimer on stock prospectuses that goes along these lines: Past performances are no guarantee that this stock will perform in similar fashion"? This is precisely why it is totally irrational to invest the farm in one stock, or one stock class or one mutual fund, etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I agree. I believe the universe is infinitely complex. Every day a new puzzle that makes life interesting! It's not the knowing. It's the finding out.

That's ASSUMING you will ever find a thing out.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

That is only a partial definition of "faith". There is also a faith that is rational in nature. "Something that is believed especially with strong conviction". And when people believe with that kind of conviction it is because they have evidence.

Bull. Religious faith is totally irrational no matter how you spin it. The kind of so-called evidence which the religious rely on is highly questionable as it is based on ancient writings of unknown origin. Each religion has their own ancient text and they cannot all be right. But there is only one science, one naturalism if you insist, and it works. Science puts food on your table, shelters you from the elements, clothes you, cures you of diseases and provides you with a quality of life that was unknown five centuries ago. Christianity provides none of this. Instead it makes excuses for its shortcomings by telling you that you are shit and, because of what some mythical ancestor did 6000 years ago, you deserve to be wiped from God's ass. I do not see how anyone with one iota of intelligence can believe that.

Originally Posted by boxcar

My faith in her is rational, as opposed to the kind of blind/irrational faith that you have that scientists will unlock the mysteries of antimatter and matter. You don't KNOW they will. You just hope they will. You have zero evidence that any scientist will actually solve the riddle.

But I would bet on it based on past performances. This is a handicapping site so I think it probable that you know about past performances. Betting that scientists will "unlock the mysteries of antimatter and matter" is a far far better bet than Secretariat at the Belmont.

Tell me, how do you know, really know, that you are not a computer simulation or a brain in a vat?

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Actor

It does not. Natural selection drives evolution toward the superior. In the long run the inferior does not survive.

You need to begin with Alex Rosenberg (The Atheist's Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life Without Illusions), rather than a layman on an off-topic horse racing site.

"...there is lots of evidence that natural selection is not very good at picking out true beliefs, especially scientific ones. Natural selection shaped our brain to seek stories with plots. The result was, as we have been arguing since Chapter 1, the greatest impediment to finding the truth about reality. The difficulty that even atheists have understanding and accepting the right answers to the persistent questions shows how pervasively natural selection has obstructed true beliefs about reality....Natural selection sometimes selects for false beliefs and sometimes even selects against the acquisition of true beliefs..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=-4...20ones&f=false

Rosenberg crafts his view to inform us that due to natural selection, we have false views about religion, morality, free will, meaning, etc. That he contradicts you isn't even the main point, which is:

From the citation above about the spurious nature of holding true beliefs, how can we be confident that he, or you, hold the correct view about science and scientism? Darwinism actually gives us reason to distrust scientism.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

You need to begin with Alex Rosenberg (The Atheist's Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life Without Illusions), rather than a layman on an off-topic horse racing site.

Let's start with a definition of dogma. The definition is mine, it's what I mean when I use the word. Having published the definition anyone of average intelligence should understand what I am saying when I use it. To paraphrase the mathematician Charles Dodgson "When I use a word it means what I want it to mean, neither more nor less. It's a question of who is the master: me or the word."

dogma - a set of beliefs held by members of a hierarchy, originating with those at the top of the hierarchy and passed down to those members of lesser rank who are expected to accept them without question on pain of expulsion from the hierarchy or other punishments, possibly even death.

There is no atheist hierarchy, ergo, there is no atheist dogma. Mr. Rosenberg certainly is not at the top of this non-existent hierarchy, ergo, I do not "need to begin" with Mr. Rosenberg or any other person, including Dawkins, Krauss, Dennett, Dillahunty, the late Mr. Hitchens, et al.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Which disciples of what religious persuasion ever told the world that their Master returned to life?

The followers of Zalmoxis.

The followers of Inanna.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Bull. Religious faith is totally irrational no matter how you spin it. The kind of so-called evidence which the religious rely on is highly questionable as it is based on ancient writings of unknown origin. Each religion has their own ancient text and they cannot all be right. But there is only one science, one naturalism if you insist, and it works. Science puts food on your table, shelters you from the elements, clothes you, cures you of diseases and provides you with a quality of life that was unknown five centuries ago. Christianity provides none of this. Instead it makes excuses for its shortcomings by telling you that you are shit and, because of what some mythical ancestor did 6000 years ago, you deserve to be wiped from God's ass. I do not see how anyone with one iota of intelligence can believe that.
But I would bet on it based on past performances. This is a handicapping site so I think it probable that you know about past performances. Betting that scientists will "unlock the mysteries of antimatter and matter" is a far far better bet than Secretariat at the Belmont.

Tell me, how do you know, really know, that you are not a computer simulation or a brain in a vat?

But the Christian faith is not irrational because God has restored the broken relationship with man that occurred at the Fall. Just like I know my wife, I have true knowledge of the living God. The gift of eternal life, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, fixes the broken relationship. I can trust God because he has never failed in keeping any of his promises. Tell me, Mr. Actor, has science swore an oath to mankind that it will unlock all the mysteries of the universe? But God has sworn an oath by swearing on his own Name (since there is no other name greater) that he will keep his promises. And I have plenty of evidence of this in my personal life and in all the fulfilled prophecies in scripture which God fulfilled through Christ. Therefore, the Christian Faith is not blind. Not irrational. It's rational from beginning to end. Paradoxically, it is sighted faith! It is faith based on true personal knowledge the Creator/Redeemer and it's based on all the fulfilled promises in scripture and the fact that all scripture is one organic, cohesive, homogeneous, harmonious redemptive story, consistent in all its parts. You cannot say this since your faith/trust in man is foolish, blind and irrational. Even your "expectation" (faith) that the sun will rise tomorrow is blind, since none of us knows what tomorrow may bring.

Also, your DRF analogy is very lame, since I don't rely on the past performances to predict the outcome of future races. Ultimately, I rely on my own handicapping skills and my interpretation of those past performances to make my selections. To the best of my knowledge I know of no guaranteed by DRF or any other PP data provider that use of their product will guarantee one's success!

And neither Christianity or the bible teaches that man is "shit" (your word!) It actually teaches, instead, that man is made in God's image and that man has a reason for being here and a purpose in life. Science doesn't tell us this, nor can it. All science can do is drum up lame theories because we're all, as an integral part of the universe, a grand cosmic ACCIDENT! There is no reason, purpose or intentionality behind our existence. In fact, in naturalism, man compared to the universe is less than insignificant. The universe could survive very nicely without man. Just ask any eco fascist!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

The followers of Zalmoxis.

The followers of Inanna.

Were these events predicted in the ancient writings of these "followers"? And is Inanna still alive today or did the other gods do her in?