Eclipse Awards

[Valuist]

OK, here we go. What awards do you feel were most unjust?

1. High Chaparral- he ran once in North America and dead-heated and barely was in front of the 3rd horse. Storming Home and Sulamani were more deserving.

2. Action this Day--this could've been a worse injustice than High Chaparral. He benefits when the Juvenile pace falls apart and he is finishing less slowly than the others. I would rate him behind Ruler's Court, Silver Wagon, Second of June and Cuvee.

3. Islington-ok she was the best horse in the F&M turf, but sorry, you need more than 1 race on this continent to win, IMO. Heat Haze was consistent all year long and a deserving winner. The voters must've woke up from their coma on October 25. And then promptly returned to that state come October 26. I'm surprised they didn't make Pleasantly Perfect HOY.

4. Eddie Castro over Fogelsonger. Castro's not a bad rider but I'm surprised he got it over Fogelsonger.

While I believe Empire Maker deserved 3YO honors Funny Cide was close enough to him so I don't really have a problem with that.

[chrisg]

to me the two most obvious injustices were in the 3yo divisions.

No way I'd give it to FCide or BTown.

EmMaker & SixPerfections(Fr) is how I saw it. To give value to the Preakness over the Belmont & Travers doesn't sit w/me. & SP beat the boys in G1's twice.

That's my opinion.

[stgeorge]

Originally posted by Valuist you need more than 1 race on this continent to win, IMO.

I would agree. But with the rules being what they are, one win is enough to give some of these Euro's the award unless a US runner is obviously superior.

And speaking of rules changes, I'd go for a jock only being eligible to win one Eclipse as apprentice. And maybe this year's voters felt that way too, even though that isn't the rule. Hence Castro winning over Fogelsonger (the 2002 winner).

Originally posted by chrisg To give value to the Preakness over the Belmont & Travers

Empire Maker didn't win the Travers. His last race was a losing effort in the Jim Dandy.

[chrisg]

I Know he didn't win the Travers. It came out wrong. I'm trying not to get long-winded here & should have said I value the Travers & Belmont over the Preakness.

To me EM beat FC twice in G1's . To me the Belmont is always belittled & the Preakness given too much credit. If you're gonna give credit for a G1 @ a distance less than the KD, then why not for the Wood?

I'm not down on FC, I came across to harsh on him.

[tanda]

As discussed before, the 3YO races that matter are the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont and Travers plus any races against older horses.

That is both my opinion and the traditional voting of the Eclipse awards. Funny Cide won two, Empire Maker won one.

Once those races are run, the Wood, etc. just does not matter much. Those are prep races for the above races.

Empire Maker did not do enough once the real running began. He was not even good enough to get to the gate in most cases.

[chrisg]

Originally posted by tanda
As discussed before, the 3YO races that matter are the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont and Travers plus any races against older horses.

That is both my opinion and the traditional voting of the Eclipse awards. Funny Cide won two, Empire Maker won one.

Once those races are run, the Wood, etc. just does not matter much. Those are prep races for the above races.

Empire Maker did not do enough once the real running began. He was not even good enough to get to the gate in most cases.

I still say the Preakness is a weak race.

I don't think that's a fair statement to say EM wasn't good enough. Injuries & trainer inclinations don't mean he wasn't good enough. If EM should have been in the Preakness, THEN Tagg should have had enough sense to skip the Belmont.

[Suff]

Originally posted by tanda
As discussed before, the 3YO races that matter are the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont and Travers plus any races against older horses.

That is both my opinion and the traditional voting of the Eclipse awards. Funny Cide won two, Empire Maker won one.

I was a Big FC booster. I had him in the derby at 9-1 (11-1 when the gate opened). Still, even i was surprised at the OVERWHELMING margin of victory.

I can't even say with a straight face that he deserved it entirley.

I think they awarded The ECLIPSE to the races. The KD and the Preak. I think it burns thier ass a NY BRED gelding won those races.. but for the sake of the breeding busniness thay can't weight races outside Kentucky very highly. Its a big con.

Go to DRF.com and bloodhorse.com and see 3 MIneshafts storys on the FRONT PAGE>..

The 3yo champion is a Page 2 story? If he was full of piss and Vinegar and bred in Kentucky.. You can bet your ass he'd be front page news.

Heres how Kentucky sold this years 3 YO Champ

Eclipse Award voting has become extremely subjective in recent years. Because of several factors, such as shortened campaigns and the lack of a standout performer over a period of time, voters often have little in the way of ammunition when it comes time to crown a worthy champion

There's your proud ringing endorsement from the Jockey Club on Funny Cide.

[Bubbles]

I think the 3YO voting could have gone either way. EM beat Funny Cide twice, but in one, the Belmont, the Funny one had an excuse, running on the lead and fighting Santos all the way. In the Wood, EM won by enough, but Bailey was hardly keeping his feet on the dashboard in deep stretch.

The 2YO Eclipse was an absolute joke. To his credit, Action This Day won the Juvenile, but aside from that race, he proved very little in his only other win, a maiden race with a slow finishing time. Chapel Royal, on the other hand, never finished worse than third in any of his starts this year, and almost all were with some of the best 2YOs in '03. Some will knock him based on his distance limitations, but he was a game third in the Juvenile this year at nine furlongs, beating such colts as Cuvee. For this colt not to be even NOMINATED for this award makes no sense in the world.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Bubbles
I think the 3YO voting could have gone either way. EM beat Funny Cide twice, but in one, the Belmont, the Funny one had an excuse, running on the lead and fighting Santos all the way. In .

UNder most conditions EM would make a Mockery of Funnycide.

Anyone who' seen both run at thier best knows EM is twice Funnycide.

[Suff]

Bub's my point is...

They gave the eclpise award to the Kentucky Derby.

[Tom]

Just like the Academy Awards......who cares?
*Yawn*
No payoffs, no interest.
The awards nothhing more the opinion of a bunch of people.
The same thing as a favorite, and they lose 2 out of 3 races.
So what' s the big deal about?

[Figman]

The New Hampshire primary results are in the same league. Who cares about a bunch of "also rans!" Knowing the winner in (NH) is like knowing who the best horse was last year at the Northampton Fair(Nmp)

[Suff]

Originally posted by Figman
The New Hampshire primary results are in the same league. Who cares about a bunch of "also rans!" Knowing the winner in (NH) is like knowing who the best horse was last year at the Northampton Fair(Nmp)

uh-waa?

Fig... you zinging me? Thats Funny.. a zing from figman. Thats new.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Suff
UNder most conditions EM would make a Mockery of Funnycide.

Anyone who' seen both run at thier best knows EM is twice Funnycide.

Yeah, we saw that played out over and over again, didn't we? Come on Suff, you know better than to get wrapped up in the EM hype. There is no proof out there that EM is twice Funnycide at their best....

Next thing you're gonna tell me is Easy Goer was twice the horse Sunday Silence was!!!

Since when did the Belmont Stakes pick up so much damn weight in the minds of handicappers?

Mile and a Half, big freakin deal....he needed a mile and a half to beat him on a sloppy track....wow...that certainly writes the tale of the tape between those two....

Unfortunately, we'll never really know who the better horse was cause Empire Maker ain't racing anymore....and the way Frankel is going these days, even if Empire Maker was running, he'd probably be toasted by Funny Cide....

[Figman]

Suff, I know you can take the zings. Really, I'm very fond of New England, especially Down East Maine.

PA, The Funny Cide-Empire Maker arguments are just what makes this game so great. I can remember having the same type arguments in 1967-68 defending my favorite horse of alltime - DR. FAGER. Many claimed DAMASCUS was a better horse but DR. FAGER just elicited class from paddock to post to finish. Yes DAMASCUS beat Dr.Fager twice when in a pair of a mile and a quarter races, DAMASCUS's stablemate pushed DR. FAGER to a split of 1:09 each time but you knew that DR. FAGER was the better horse. After each defeat DR. FAGER came back to avenge and beat DAMASCUS. This was probably a greater rivalry than EMPIRE MAKER-FUNNY CIDE as it went on for two years!