Match Up book

[cj]

Originally Posted by First_Place

Hey CJ,

You couldn't shine the Doc's or The Hat's shoes! You're obviously envious of these two famous men.

FP

Well hell, how will I sleep tonight? I was just sending in my shoe shine resume, seeing how I've shined a pair of boots or two the last 22 years.

For the last time, I wasn't knocking anything these guys have done or their abilities. I am knocking the outlandish statement I quoted from the review. I'm flabbergasted people can actually believe and/or defend that ridiculous comment.

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

From what I've heard he doesn't use computers that much.

He does not even a pen. Just the DRF

[shanta]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Allowing a review to be posted is one thing, but it is twice now that someone has posted an address and where to send the $$$$. I'll leave it up to CJ whether he thinks that should come down under the auspices of free advertising....after all, he's a moderator....

Mike and CJ

I apologize about posting the address. Please delete it and hope you understand I get caught up in Shi* too. My bad and I don't want it to reflect badly on Binder ok?

Thanx

Richie

[First_Place]

"Well hell, how will I sleep tonight? I was just sending in my shoe shine resume, seeing how I've shined a pair of boots or two the last 22 years."

Very funny...HOWEVER, don't quit your day job.

FP

[cj]

Originally Posted by First_Place

"Well hell, how will I sleep tonight? I was just sending in my shoe shine resume, seeing how I've shined a pair of boots or two the last 22 years."

Very funny...HOWEVER, don't quit your day job.

FP

I can't, since I don't have one.

[shanta]

Originally Posted by cj

I am knocking the outlandish statement I quoted from the review. I'm flabbergasted people can actually believe and/or defend that ridiculous comment.

CJ
WHY is it so hard for you to understand he might be capable of doing just that? At the same time NEVER taking the game serious enough to wager at it full time choosing instead a full life of family, sports(Sooners) and other stuff?

You do not know him,have never spoken to him, have never met him in person. Yet you speak with such certainty like you know him through and through.

If someone buys the book are they gonna win 60% betting one horse? HELL NO. That's ridiculous and IS hyperbole.

But if the book can possibly teach and/or help one to:
1) Eliminate 1 out of every 10 wagers because of inability to match successfully against today's pace

2) Multi horse per race wagerers to save at least 1-3 horse bets every 25 horses because they have been identified as 'earlies" and todays race will be won "other than early"

3) helps one PASS a race because the final 2 horses they have as contenders are
a) early
b) other than early

therby tipping one off to the REALITY that they really do NOT have an understanding of the race at hand and are better off PASSING to get to a race that IS identified and understood(not that they all win )

If any or all this IS of potential benefit to a player then the book takes on a different light and becomes something of value.

That's all I got! lol

Take care,
Richie

[46zilzal]

fellow is legendary and lots of people whom I respect have seen him in the flesh do just what has been stated......Hard to deny info from 10-12 different sources as collusion or a lie.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by cj

For the last time, I wasn't knocking anything these guys have done or their abilities. I am knocking the outlandish statement I quoted from the review. I'm flabbergasted people can actually believe and/or defend that ridiculous comment.

CJ,
I know I shouldn't go here, but here goes anyway

On the one hand you say you're not knocking anything they've done or their abilities and then on the other hand you say that what they have claimed to have done is outlandish.

So you're not knocking what they've done, but you're knocking the fact that they did it as being outlandish?

I think what you mean to say is that you respect their abilities, but you think they are given to hyperbole. Is that correct?

Why not just say, it is possible to consistenly win 9 of 17, but you're skeptical.

Flabbergasted? People believe Jesus is the son of God, that he walked on water, made blind people see, fed many people with little food, etc. etc. etc. Seems what The Hat has accomplished is minor in comparison and requires a much smaller leap of faith.

Remember that famous Eric Clapton graffiti in England -- "Clapton is God".

If you go to the underside of the grandstand at Remington Park you'll see graffiti that says, "Hat is God".

[cj]

Richie (and swetyejohn),

Last post on this subject from me. I have said I will buy the book. I buy just about any book about racing. I've probably only read one or two in my life that I didn't think were worth the money.

I have no reason to doubt that the man is a great handicapper. I've never said that he is not, or know differently, or even suspect it.

I have said he can't win at a 53% rate betting one horse while also having 5 of the 9 be non-favorites. Of course anyone could do this over a short span, but it is simply not possible over the long haul.

Let us assume, since 4 would be favorites, and 5 would not be, his average payoff would be around $8.00, or 3 to 1. This is a VERY conservative estimate given what was stated by Howard Sartin. For every 100 races, he is going to cash $8.00 53 times. So, for $200 in, he will have $424 returned, for an ROI of 4.24 for every $2 bet. This is a profit rate of 112%!

If the man were to play 10 races a day, betting a mere $50 a race, he would bet $500 per day, and win $600, again being very conservative. If he only plays 200 days per year, he would make 6 figures ($112,000) betting $50 a race while being VERY selective, playing only 10 races a day.

Come on guys, even the classified ads in DRF are not this outlandish. OK, maybe they are, but we all snicker at those.

To sum this up:

• I will buy the book
• I don't question that the guy is a good handicapper, bettor, whatever
• I think the claims made by Howard Sartin (not the author) are way over the top and unachievable by any one individual or group of indivuals working together.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey look. If the guy can do this kind of thing on a regular basis, all he has to do is post 100 picks in the selections section of this board, and if he comes anywhere CLOSE to what Sartin claimed, he will sell lots more books and make CJ look foolish in the process. All for free!

Who could ask for a better daily double than that??

[cj]

I think we have some guys visiting Mr. Roarke this thread.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by cj

Richie (and swetyejohn),

Last post on this subject from me.

I was just busting your chops -- giving you a little good natured ribbing. I knew what you meant and I agree with you.

[44PACE]

I have read every book written on horse racing I can say that there are 2 that stand heads above the rest.

1. Pace makes the Race #1
2. The matchup by the hat

A distant 3rd is Brohammers modern race. Followed up by Pizzollas book.

The one thing they all have in common is they were Sartin students. All the rest written by the Q's and the S' etc do not belong on the same book shelves as these, maybe in the public restroom for releaving constipation.

The matchup in order to grasp it you need to look at the races totally different from the crowd, most people can not or refuse to do this so they will not benefit.If you are able to grasp it you will blow away your competition who use worn out ideas that no longer work.

[44PACE]

Brohammers Modern Pace.

[shanta]

Originally Posted by 44PACE

I have read every book written on horse racing I can say that there are 2 that stand heads above the rest.

1. Pace makes the Race #1
2. The matchup by the hat

A distant 3rd is Brohammers modern race. Followed up by Pizzollas book.

The one thing they all have in common is they were Sartin students. All the rest written by the Q's and the S' etc do not belong on the same book shelves as these, maybe in the public restroom for releaving constipation.

The matchup in order to grasp it you need to look at the races totally different from the crowd, most people can not or refuse to do this so they will not benefit.If you are able to grasp it you will blow away your competition who use worn out ideas that no longer work.

The Hat's book probably won't be a best seller because what he does is NOT in vogue in today's high tech handicapping age "44".

He hawks no software(he actually has written 3 a decade ago but tells folks UPFRONT he does NOT know how to use them).

He has no data file stream coming in

He is clueless about "Oddslines"

He has no clue about money management

He has no clue about what a "value bet" is

EVERYTHING "in vogue" today he is totally detached from.

He is just a man with the Daily Racing Form and the HORSES inside it.
Oh and his Stetson too

Richie