Even Grooms Are Victimized By NYRA Weasels

[Figman]

VS & Alysheba,
NYRA and Barry Schwartz must initiate any increase in takeout under the NY Racing Law as of May of 2003. It is no longer an Albany politician call other than the final "ok" coming from the Racing and Wagering Board. See below! And as history shows, changes in the NY Racing Law are difficult to achieve! Look how long it took to get unlimited simulcasting and thoroughbreds at night being allowed.


S 229. Disposition of pari-mutuel pools of nonprofit racing
associations; percentage payable to state as a tax; authority of
counties or certain cities to impose a tax. 1. (a) Every nonprofit
racing association authorized under this chapter to conduct pari-mutuel betting at a race meeting or races run thereat shall distribute all sums deposited in any pari-mutuel pool to the holders of winning tickets therein, provided such tickets be presented for payment before April first of the year following the year of their purchase, less an amount which shall be established and retained by such nonprofit racing association of between twelve to seventeen per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track regular bets, and fourteen to twenty-one percentum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track multiple bets and fifteen to twenty-five per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track exotic bets and fifteen
to thirty-six per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track super exotic bets, plus the breaks. The retention rate to be established is subject to the prior approval of the racing and wagering board. Such rate may not be changed more than once per calendar quarter to be effective on the first day of the calendar quarter.

[VetScratch]

Changing takeout is not so much a consideration as operating on a cash breakeven basis with the current takeout. Whatever you takeout should limit what you can spend. But what you can spend should also follow regulations with respect to distribution of takeout revenue.

No one could fault NYRA for presenting the best product that money can buy. However, I am an overbearing critic of NYRA, and have been, since it was revealed that the product was being funded by money NYRA had no right to spend. Behind all the political correctness required to get out of this mess, horsemen have every reason to be disgusted and mistrustful... but these feelings might have been mitigated if the misappropriation of the horsemen's funds had come to light straightforwardly instead of in a NYRA plea-bargain memo to prosecutors that was leaked to the press.

Would you expect NYRA to conduct good faith negotiations in the future if you were a horse owner or trainer?

I'm exhausted... and the tone of PA's post does resonate... more drum beating will not have much impact on events that will play out behind closed doors... boorish on my part to rant further on these issues here!

[VetScratch]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I agree with alysheba 100% (surprise VET!)

However, I fear with all this crap that has been NEEDLESSLY stirred up (this ALL could have been dealt with in a much more low-key manner, with the SAME RESULTS), that NYRA will be forced somehow to INCREASE the takeout in order to "SHOW" the powers that be that they are dutifully keeping an eye on the bottom line....

Show of hands....who out there would agree with me when I state that the same exact results could have been obtained from NYRA (the firing and prosecution of a bunch of crooked employees, and the payment of a fine) without all this political fanfare and without the threat of a NYRA indictment......I know my hand is raised high.....

Without all the political grandstanding, the VLT project might have been ready to open for business in March or April, as originally planned, and the purses would be well on their way to being the highest in the nation....good for the owners (and the GROOMS we hope)

Now we're stuck in a quagmire that doesn't seem to be a benefit to ANYONE at the moment.....

The owners aren't getting any more purse money cause the VLTs are still on hold....

The NYRA isn't going to be getting out of their financial woes anytime soon because now they have a $3M fine to pay on top of everything else that has gone on....

The bettors are probably going to be SCREWED again because the takeout is probably going to increase in some manner to pay for all this crap.....


But then again, this is just another "Stupid post" by me, right Vet?

Correct.

[freeneasy]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I am absolutely loving this....VetScratch brings up how the grooms are going to be victimized in all this....

Here's a news flash for ol' Vettie...Grooms are THE bottom of the barrel at the racetrack when it comes to the pay-scale (well, I guess hotwalkers would be lower...maybe you can write about them next?).

They can't anymore SCREWED by owners/trainers if they tried, so I wouldn't worry about them Vet....once you're licking the curb, you can't go any lower, so I doubt the trickle down effect will hurt grooms....

So, lets move onto the next level of your inflamatory rhetoric regarding this topic...can't wait to see what rabbit you pull out of your hat next....


Grooms getting hurt by this....that's a good one Vet, I have to hand it to you...it almost got me.....LOL

thats one of the funniest things i ever heard. ...once youve slunk to the depths of licking the curb, ya cant go any lower. noshocant. too funny pa, too too funny

[PaceAdvantage]

In a year or two, this whole incident will be a little ol' pimple on an elephant's ass.....the owner's will be getting all their purse money and then some with the slot money thrown into the mix in a couple years, and the grooms will still be paid like crap....

[alysheba88]

And the trainers will still be juicing horses and crying indiginantly when caught

[VetScratch]

It is wrong to make the owners replace monies stolen from their own accounts. This is like making a murder victim's survivors atone for the murderer's sins. NYRA is the guilty party... no one else.

You ethics stink! What would you do with Saddam Hussein, double his stash of cash and send him on his way?

[VetScratch]

And there is one thing lower than curb licking; it's called boot licking!

[stgeorge]

Originally posted by VetScratch
It is wrong to make the owners replace monies stolen from their own accounts.

One thing not addressed in this is the fact that the whole question of owners paying this fine comes from the point that owners are entitled to the first $2 million in profit that NYRA makes. Since the corporation hasn't been profitable for awhile, is it safe to assume they will magically make a profit this coming year? And if they don't, then I would assume the fine is treated as an expense.

And to your point about "noblesse oblige"... I have a feeling that if the trustees stepped up and paid the fine, naysayers like yourself would simply have then proclaimed the punishment too light because, "look, these rich guys just reached into their wallets and paid it off."

[VetScratch]

StGeorge,

Guess where the money to pay the fine installments will come from?
Therefore, it would reflect well on NYRA if trustees paid the fines.

About proposals to exclude breeders and horsemen from VLT subsidies for the first two years of operation: Pataki and other supporters of NYRA have been the proponents of this and other measures to reduce VLT subsidies to breeders and to horsemen (which is how purses are funded).

The legislature has fiddled with VLT regulations in each budget package since the inception of the original legislation to enable VLT operations at racetracks.

Budget legislation passed in the spring of 2003 retained VLT subsidies to horsemen during the first three years of VLT operation. Thus, Pataki's proposal was rejected by the legislature, which overrode Pataki's veto (but the primary motivation for the veto was not VLT revenue distribution). However, the budget legislation did change VLT distributions and authorized NYRA and the horsemen to negotiate reductions to the horsemen's share of VLT revenues. http://www2.als.edu/glc/wagering/newyorkb.pdf

After the NYRA investigation stalled the VLT project, and some details about NYRA's financial woes emerged, including the deficit in the horsemen's account, lobbying for changes in VLT distributions was renewed with respect to the next round of budget legislation. Supporters of NYRA are expected to attempt passage of Pataki's proposal via budget amendments in 2004.

Horsemen view such proposals as transparent schemes to divert VLT subsidies that horsemen are scheduled to receive into NYRA's share of VLT revenues (which is precisely where the foregone revenues to horsemen would end up). NYRA could then use this two-year boost in its share of VLT revenues to pay back the $-millions that are missing from horsemen's accounts. In effect, horsemen would be paying off the deficit created when NYRA misappropriated the horsemen's funds.

From an off-the-record source, my latest understanding is that Pataki's proposal is not likely to be enacted in the next budget package unless the finances of NYRA are worse than anticipated (if that is possible) when Hevesi and the court-appointed monitor get access to NYRA's books. To ward off possible exclusion from VLT revenues, supporters of horsemen are quietly being told that legal action may be initiated against NYRA by the THA if legislative support for the horsemen begins to seriously erode. This sounds like politics as usual... but National THA director and attorney Alan Foreman did win a recent battle with racetracks in Maryland by convincing horsemen that they must actually use a "big stick" when it is necessary and available.

You are almost certainly correct to say that there is little hope that NYRA will show a profit from horseracing... but the fines will still have to be paid in installments, and the horsemen's funds will be the only source of money to pay fines. Since only funds that remain unprotected (outside the new AQU account) will be available, it will be interesting to see what Hevesi finds when NYRA's books are opened.

Maybe more public humiliation will convince NYRA to tighten its belt and stop spending its way further into bankruptcy.

In any case, NYRA has only itself to blame for its current woes. Lies and denials only protracted a bad situation and further delayed resumption of the VLT project. If trustees stepped forward to pay the fines, it would really help NYRA crawl back towards respectability.

Here's a new story: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wi...-regional-wire

After NYRA's books are opened, do the math with NYRA's share of VLT revenues for a drop ranging between 7% and 10% (since 10% is not very competitive in the slot market) against projections for VLT handle. Then look at the current debt plus forthcoming debts associated with VLT implementation. If the past foreshadows the future, NYRA could even manage to fail as a VLT operator. Maybe indians from Arizona and New Mexico should be hired to run NYRA.

[PaceAdvantage]

You win Vet...dump NYRA now! You've convinced me.....they suck donkey doo.....

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by VetScratch
It is wrong to make the owners replace monies stolen from their own accounts.

By the way, what in the world are you talking about? What monies were stolen from what accounts? NAME ME ONE OWNER WHO WASN'T PAID WHAT WAS OWED TO THEM. I haven't heard of a one name bandied about, yet I hear all this talk of "stolen money"

[PaceAdvantage]

And again, although I did say NYRA sucked donkey doo in a previous post (of course, I was merely jesting), I must reiterate that NYRA has been running NY racing since the early 1970s. To even think for a minute that they should be stripped of their franchise after 30+ years of putting on the greatest racing show in the country just because of some dirty clerks and a handful of complicit managers is insane. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously has some other agenda they are working on.

We all know horsemen are NOT a forgiving bunch...they have been known to strike at the entry box for many a reason. WHY if NYRA is such the evil empire that Vet says they are, haven't the horsemen protested? They haven't even publicly proclaimed that they don't like NYRA....in fact, THEY HAVE PROCLAIMED THAT THEY LIKE NYRA, and they WANT NYRA to survive!!!!

Vet says NYRA stole money from the owners accounts!!! Yet the owners want NYRA to continue onward and upward!!! Go figure....

[VetScratch]

PA,

When the ALS reviewed Comptroller Hevesi's September 2003 report on NYRA, it was critical of Hevesi's diligence with respect to NYRA's finances dating back as early as 2001.

From http://www2.als.edu/glc/wagering/comptrollerreport.pdf:
The report notes that NYRA reported it had spent, as of the end of 2001, $6 million from accounts that held the winnings of horsemen at the track. This left only $8.6 million in these accounts. You might think that dipping into these funds would necessarily affect NYRA's financial position and its ability to conduct business. But there is no indication that this utilization of horsemen's money was factored at all into the Comptroller's audit of NYRA. Are these horsemen's funds trust funds? Can NYRA dip into them in any way? A bailee can not utilize a bailor's property for its own private purposes. Why is this any different? Isn't this a major issue that should be explored by the Comptroller and the Attorney General?

Clearly, ALS questioned NYRA's right to the horsemen's funds and wondered why this issue was not investigated much earlier, when it first came to light. By the end of 2002, NYRA admitted to federal prosecutors that $14-million of horsemen's funds had been spent. Today, the total is estimated at upwards of $20-million. THA attorney Alan Foreman has warned that liability issues with respect to the horsemen's funds have yet to be addressed even though a deal has been brokered with respect to federal indictments against NYRA.

Instead of vapid opinion, why don't you give us a reference to a legal opinion that NYRA had a right to spend the horsemen's funds.

No one seems to dispute the huge current deficit in the horsemen's accounts, but NYRA's story that it "borrowed" the funds is hardly credible since none of the "borrowings" appear on horsemen's account statements.

What do you call borrowing without disclosure or consent?

When Hevesi and the court-appointed monitor get their hands on NYRA's books, the next chapter in the NYRA story will begin to play out. We shall just have to see what settlement is reached to restore the stolen funds to the horsemen.

[PaceAdvantage]

When Hevesi and the court-appointed monitor get their hands on NYRA's books, the next chapter in the NYRA story will begin to play out.

AND UNTIL SUCH TIME, I WILL REFUSE (unlike yourself) TO OFFER MEANINGLESS CONJECTURE ABOUT WHAT I THINK SHOULD or MIGHT HAPPEN. This seems to be the ONLY way you like to operate. Throw out some theories, and let the chips fall where they may. Accuse people of stealing, when in fact no such charges have EVER been suggested.

Vet, at times you're nothing but yellow journalism at its best....

How come the Department of Justice mentioned nothing in their report about this supposed "theft?" Surely, this type of behavior must fall under some federal jurisdiction, correct?

Why aren't the horsemen and owners up in arms about this "theft" you continue to talk about. How come the DRF isn't filled with quotes from disgusted owners clamoring for their hard-earned purse money. How come you refuse to answer this question even though I've asked it numerous times?

Obviously, this isn't a problem for anyone...