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07-12-2018, 10:21 AM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR
You don't want jockeys betting even on themselves to win
The problem is a group of jockeys could reach an understanding that they will help each other's bet win. So 4 jockeys might agree to help each of them cash a winning bet by not trying when one of them has a bet running. So in R1 Jockey A backs themself to win while Jockeys B, C and D don't try or even engage in tactics to help A win. Then in R2 Jockey B bets so A, C and D try to help B get home etc etc. After 4 races each of them cashes a big bet on their own mount
So the rule has to be that jockeys cannot bet
However back in the real world it is very hard to stop jockeys betting and rumours always abound about some jockeys being big bettors
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So I guess you think stewards do nothing and in your scenario they wouldn’t see 4 jocks trying to “help” another jock win. Why do we have stewards? A jockey has a license if they do something illegal they lose their livelihood. I don’t think a quick fix would give them enough money to live off of for the rest of their life.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
Last edited by onefast99; 07-12-2018 at 10:23 AM.
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07-12-2018, 11:53 AM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Come on, you can't have jockeys betting on other horses in the race.
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(a) No jockey shall bet on any race except through the owner of and on the horse that such jockey rides, and any jockey who shall have any interest in any race or horse or to have been engaged in any betting transaction except as permitted by this section, or to have received presents from persons other than the owner, may be punished as provided by sections 4022.12 through 4022.15 of this Article.
(b) Any person knowingly acting in the capacity of part owner or trainer of any horse in which a jockey possesses an interest or making any bet with or in behalf of any jockey except as provided in subdivision (a) of this section, or otherwise aiding or abetting in any breach of this Article, may be punished as provided by sections 4022.12 through 4022.15 of this Article.
But jockeys are allowed to bet through the owner? Learn something new every day.
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07-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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[QUOTE=jay68802;2340574](a) No jockey shall bet on any race except through the owner of and on the horse that such jockey rides, and any jockey who shall have any interest in any race or horse or to have been engaged in any betting transaction except as permitted by this section, or to have received presents from persons other than the owner, may be punished as provided by sections 4022.12 through 4022.15 of this Article.
(b) Any person knowingly acting in the capacity of part owner or trainer of any horse in which a jockey possesses an interest or making any bet with or in behalf of any jockey except as provided in subdivision (a) of this section, or otherwise aiding or abetting in any breach of this Article, may be punished as provided by sections 4022.12 through 4022.15 of this Article.
But jockeys are allowed to bet through the owner? Learn something new every day.
Been going on since the dawn of time and why not? I have also seen where an agent makes a considerable bet on his jock. Trainers bet as well and none of it changes the outcome of the race like some in this thread seem to think.
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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07-12-2018, 02:43 PM
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#49
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Pete Rose agrees with you. I don't think it is a big problem, but it does bring into question the times riders don't bet on themselves. Obviously it wouldn't be wise to bet on yourself every race, but it still isn't a good optic.
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I've always thought Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
Betting against yourself is one thing. Betting for yourself is extra incentive to do your best to win. I've no problem with that.
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07-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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#50
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR
You don't want jockeys betting even on themselves to win
The problem is a group of jockeys could reach an understanding that they will help each other's bet win. So 4 jockeys might agree to help each of them cash a winning bet by not trying when one of them has a bet running. So in R1 Jockey A backs themself to win while Jockeys B, C and D don't try or even engage in tactics to help A win. Then in R2 Jockey B bets so A, C and D try to help B get home etc etc. After 4 races each of them cashes a big bet on their own mount
So the rule has to be that jockeys cannot bet
However back in the real world it is very hard to stop jockeys betting and rumours always abound about some jockeys being big bettors
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They sure have to be on the right horses to make that work. I'd bet (ha) that they could try that 100 times and fail 100 times. The horses have far too much to say in the outcomes.
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07-12-2018, 10:58 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 19,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
That is the fatal flaw of the game.
No trainer, owner, rider or steward should ever be allowed to bet on ANY horses anywhere.
You cannot be a part of the game and play it as well.
It is a major conflict of interest.
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...................................... B.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Only fool ever assumes honesty.
You CANNOT allow the people who participate in the sporting event to bet on it's outcome. ANY sporting event, Anyone. Anytime.
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Tom don’t feel bad, because you’re not alone when it comes to these type of rash and biased opinions. However, please keep in mind that the “Sport of Kings” was never initially intended to be a game for Outsider betting. It only evolved that way and eventually the side-betting became the mutual betting we experience today.
Someday those like yourself will come to the realization that if you’re not among the connections, you’re an Outsider playing an Insider’s game. Anyone that can’t rationalize or come to grips with that simple fact will never acquire a inclusive handle on what this game is all about. I believe that this denial may also be one of the root causes for the majority players losing.
I will also go as far to say (from a bettor’s perspective) that the game is not just about the horses. (As most so-called handicappers believe). It’s about those involved in every aspect of a horse’s racing career: their mental and physical well-being, training, freshening, and of course placement into various racing events. As far as I know these thoroughbreds are still totally dependent on their immediate connections for ALL aspects of their lives. I see no reason why those who put on the show at their expense and sweat equity should be denied the opportunity to reap any additional compensation.
Funny how so many players gripe about their personal costs of staying in this game. When in fact it’s trivial when compared to what’s involved to the care of even a single horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
It makes sense when you consider that owners and trainers often try to cash BETS, as well as collect purses.
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...........................EXACTLY!!
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07-13-2018, 12:00 AM
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#52
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Duly noted.
I'm no expert with NYRA's program or their purse structure.
I hope it helps some of the short fields. When I see these 5 or 6 horse fields, I can only invest a brief look at the chalk to see if I'm against.
It's like betting against an additional takeout when there are 3 less horses that you would exclude who would happen to take at least some money. Pass over those races unless I see a bad favorite.
I think tomorrow, races 4-7 have four consecutive races with a decent field size. They aren't top races, but I am excited to have a four race sequence in a NY market. I can work with that. I like that it seems that they try to card the full races later in the card with the half races earlier on most days.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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07-13-2018, 05:43 PM
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#53
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
Funny how so many players gripe about their personal costs of staying in this game. When in fact it’s trivial when compared to what’s involved to the care of even a single horse.
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Not my problem.
If I go to nice restaurant, should I accept cold fries because the cost of running the kitchen is so high.
I say BS right back at ya.
You guys deserve to go the road that Harness went down.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-13-2018, 07:47 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
......................................B.S.
Funny how so many players gripe about their personal costs of staying in this game. When in fact it’s trivial when compared to what’s involved to the care of even a single horse.
...........................EXACTLY!!
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The cost to buy a cup of coffee is minuscule to the cost to build the shopping center. I have no idea what one has to do with the other.
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07-13-2018, 10:09 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 19,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Not my problem.
If I go to nice restaurant, should I accept cold fries because the cost of running the kitchen is so high.
I say BS right back at ya.
You guys deserve to go the road that Harness went down.
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Glad to hear that you’ve changed you’re ways! Can we also expect to start seeing some more thought provoking and encouraging posts about the game you enjoy so much?
BTW your premise about it being a “nice restaurant” is a bit flawed.
Not many decent restaurants that I’m aware of would ever serve “cold” food of any kind (unless of course its salad). Then again, if you’re a known regular and a scanty tipper who knows what you might be served. (Maybe even those defiled mashed potatoes you mentioned earlier) LOL
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07-13-2018, 10:25 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 19,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
The cost to buy a cup of coffee is minuscule to the cost to build the shopping center.
I have no idea what one has to do with the other.
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I second that motion because I also haven’t a clue as to how you could possibly arrive at that correlation based on my earlier comment. I’m really not interested in a subsequent explanation either because you’re profound thoughts would probably go right over my head.
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07-14-2018, 10:17 AM
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#57
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
I’m really not interested in a subsequent explanation either because you’re profound thoughts would probably go right over my head.
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Short hop.
__________________
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