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Old 02-06-2021, 02:44 PM   #16
the little guy
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I am not sure they are really cut off. Don't you think it is possible that they may have more than one way to get into the pool. Not even sure it really helps the everyday player. On days you out handicap them isn't it good to have their money in the pools ? NYRA seems to be doing the right thing, but if they concentrated on stopping huge odds changes after the race has begun that would probably help the average bettor more in the long run.
Obviously you havenít been paying close attention to the great value in the Late Pick-5 which has always kept them out as well.

I canít believe any regular player is actually complaining about this.
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Old 02-06-2021, 03:35 PM   #17
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What is the definition of a CAW?

Is there one?

I mean, clearly it is not "uses a computer."

As for "automated," I don't know of any playing corp that let's the computer do it all. At the end, an "agent" queues the bets and fires it.
Since there isn't a due process right here, I assume whatever technical capabilities will be deployed to keep these bettors out and the rest of us won't notice except maybe some payoffs will be higher.
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Old 02-06-2021, 04:19 PM   #18
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It isn't just the computer access, it is the price cut they are playing with that gives them a deadly combination.
They are still getting those? I thought that changed?
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Old 02-06-2021, 05:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
Obviously you havenít been paying close attention to the great value in the Late Pick-5 which has always kept them out as well.

I canít believe any regular player is actually complaining about this.
Interesting one today...
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Old 02-06-2021, 06:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
What is the definition of a CAW?

Is there one?

I mean, clearly it is not "uses a computer."

As for "automated," I don't know of any playing corp that let's the computer do it all. At the end, an "agent" queues the bets and fires it.
I assume it is those entering batch bets in large numbers.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:24 AM   #21
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this scenario reminds me of wall street. don't go into the lions den if you are not a lion tamer.
it use to be people did not have the need or inclination to make serious money in horseracing. they found it a hell of alot easier to just find regular work for income, and leave horseracing for entertainment purposes. remember the days when a significant portion of the money in the mutual pools was bet far in advance of post time.
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:28 AM   #22
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This is the best news about horse racing that I've heard in the last 20 years. I applaud the NYRA...and hope that this experiment proves profitable enough to entice other racing jurisdictions to follow suit. Hopefully, before we all die, a move will be made to exclude the CAW players from the wagering pools altogether. It's about time the long-suffering independent horseplayer received some encouragement in this game.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:13 AM   #23
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This is the best news about horse racing that I've heard in the last 20 years. I applaud the NYRA...and hope that this experiment proves profitable enough to entice other racing jurisdictions to follow suit. Hopefully, before we all die, a move will be made to exclude the CAW players from the wagering pools altogether. It's about time the long-suffering independent horseplayer received some encouragement in this game.
they did make a very brave move.. what the CAW does to the trifecta, superfecta, pick 3 +4 is no different than what they do to the pick 5+6. i have no problem letting them bet the w-p-s pools as long as they bet before the bell goes off. i only wish i knew about the pick 5 change about 3 weeks ago when i had 3 ice cold winners in the sequence and might have been able to find the other 2.

i think this will actually help the handle for NYRA going forward.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:28 AM   #24
Andy Asaro
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They have a

Bankroll edge

Technology edge

Skill edge

Massive rebate edge

The top 3 edges should be enough to let them compete without rebates if the Industry lowers takeout for everyone.

Start with the high churn wagers first and pay to the penny on breakage.

Grow the effin gambling game of skill
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Old 02-07-2021, 10:58 AM   #25
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Seems like the easier solution would be to close the window to ADWís that are handing out rebates to NYRA tracks, itís always a bit more effective to attack the root cause of the problem
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:07 AM   #26
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So basically we now have a 20 cent non jackpot pick six. I like that idea, I think I posted that should be done about 2 or 3 years ago. Eliminating Caw just keeps it limited to regular players. It would be like having a big poker tournament and having an amateur only table. I wonder how interested these groups are in the wager anyhow now that there is no carryover. My guess is they do not care one bit that they are excluded from these pools.

I think NYRA, should take it one step further and make it a 10% takeout(other ideas would be seed the pool or a lone ticket bonus-I think they have done that for the late pick 5) Really entice people to bet it and create a great betting opportunity for joe public. Also it should not be on the same races as the late pick 5. It should be on races 3 to 8.

All that being said the problem that these caw bettors create, largely because of their huge rebates (I honestly do not care about CAW, but I do care about them getting big rebates on top of their being able to bet as they do) , is still there. They may not be in the $100,000 pick six pool or $300,000 late pick 5 pool now, but they certainly are in the other 7.5 to 11.5 million bet each day (or whatever the figure is). So while I am glad they are at least aware and are talking about the problems created by caw bettors this does basically nothing to solve the problem. It is a tiny baby step in the right direction.
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:29 AM   #27
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It isn't just the computer access, it is the price cut they are playing with that gives them a deadly combination.
That may be a more troublesome issue to me than using computers.

It's easy enough to understand the idea behind encouraging greater betting volume with higher rebates. It wouldn't shock me if some of these guys put in some bets they don't even expect to make any money on just to reach certain rebate thresholds that increase overall profits.

From a selfish perspective, I'd rather see as many CAW players drop out as possible and other good players stop sharing their best insights on social media, podcasts, Twitter, racing programs and racing forums. I'd rather bring in new money instead so there will be more inefficiencies in the pools (I used to love NYCOTB bettors). Rebate levels might be another area to tweak.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:27 PM   #28
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Pick6

Any Drexel alums pipe in yet?
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:46 PM   #29
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AQU yesterday:
AQU late P4 (CRW fueled) payout: $2,466.75 ($207,755 pool).
AQU late P5 (non CRW fueled) payout: $2,031.25 ($234,063 pool).

Late P5 was opened up to all on 7/3/19. Comp for this period.
Early P5:
291 pools
$517,895 avg pool, $455,836 median
21,471 avg combos, 16,128
$6,943 avg payoff, $1,162

Late P5:
288 pools
$375,167 avg pool, $300,320
39,879 avg combos, 31,360
$11,901 avg payoff, $2,406

Empire P6 so far in '21:
19 pools
$105,019 avg pool, $92,213 median
208,203 avg combos, 155,575
$11,268 avg payoff, $3,190

Empire Jackpot 6 same period last year:
19 pools
$86,605 avg pool, $81,421 median
143,891 avg combos, 121,905
$3,820 avg payoff, $1,955
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
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It isn't just the computer access, it is the price cut they are playing with that gives them a deadly combination.
I thought Oaklawn led the way on getting rid of these discounts a few years back? Didnít the Computer guys then stop playing Oaklawn?

I know Tampa Bay let them run amok at a huge discount at one time.......
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