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Old 11-30-2020, 01:41 PM   #1
westernmassbob
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Gulfstream Park West ( Calder) done for good

So the last horse race ever was run at the old Calder and jai alai will now be satisfying the casino permit requirements. Does this mean Gulfstream Park will pick up those racing dates or will they go back to Hialeah or Palmetto? I donít think the turf course at Gulfstream can handle a few extra months of racing. Maybe there will be no horse racing for a for those months in SOFLO going forward which to me will be a travesty.
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Old 11-30-2020, 08:01 PM   #2
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I think they are planning on giving the turf course a rest every year. Also they're thinking about only running three days per week after Breeder's Cup.

This is what I read back at the start of Gpw's meet, and was not definitively decided.
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Old 11-30-2020, 08:47 PM   #3
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I would be very surprised if Gulfstream didnít run the dates. Consolidating South Florida racing dates has been a battle that Gulfstream has been fighting for decades. And itís too bad, because Gulfstreamís turf course, or any turf course that gets that much rain for that matter, cannot handle that many racing dates imo. The only alternative now is to hope that Hialeah doesnít like being in the cowboy racing business of running untimed quarter horse races for a couple weeks a year to satisfy the casino license

Tampaís bloodstock comes from horsemen that run regularly up north, while Miami pulls from the eastern seaboard
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:35 PM   #4
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I would be very surprised if Gulfstream didnít run the dates. Consolidating South Florida racing dates has been a battle that Gulfstream has been fighting for decades. And itís too bad, because Gulfstreamís turf course, or any turf course that gets that much rain for that matter, cannot handle that many racing dates imo. The only alternative now is to hope that Hialeah doesnít like being in the cowboy racing business of running untimed quarter horse races for a couple weeks a year to satisfy the casino license

Tampaís bloodstock comes from horsemen that run regularly up north, while Miami pulls from the eastern seaboard
It would still be too much racing, but Gulfstream has three turf courses in reality. Hell, they've run three rail settings on the same day without taking the others down. They shuffle between the three courses.

Part of the problem IMO is that they use them all instead of just running inside, then moving to the middle, then moving to the outside. That gives the other portions of the course time to heal. But they give them all daily wear so no part ever gets a real break.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #5
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Unpopular opinion: Calder was always a boring track with mediocre racing and while I don't want to see anyone unemployed, I won't miss watching or betting it.

Unpopular opinion 2: I don't want Hialeah to come back as a thoroughbred track. Yeah, I know, flamingos and it was great 70 years ago. The last version of Hialeah had ridiculous takeout levels and mediocre racing. I don't miss it, and we don't need more tracks like that. We can spray paint some of the Parx seagulls pink and pretend it's Hialeah if you want that 30% takeout.

Unpopular opinion 3: Let Gulfstream take a break for a bit to build up some interest in their winter meet. Maybe the "summer" meet will suck less if trainers need to run. Maybe Tampa will get some of the excess horses and/or open earlier in the fall to fill the gap.

Stronach fought for 20 years to kill off Hialeah and then Calder, and he won the fight. But has he improved racing in any way in the state? He's only diluted his own brand. I think in retrospect he might be viewed in a more sympathetic light because of his willingness to throw multi-millions at racing at a time when few would, but for those who've watched his actions over the years, he's done more to hurt racing than help it.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post

Unpopular opinion 2: I don't want Hialeah to come back as a thoroughbred track. Yeah, I know, flamingos and it was great 70 years ago. The last version of Hialeah had ridiculous takeout levels and mediocre racing. I don't miss it, and we don't need more tracks like that. We can spray paint some of the Parx seagulls pink and pretend it's Hialeah if you want that 30% takeout.
Would you be interested in a Hialeah being run as GPSFWAS (Gulfstream Park Slightly Further West and South) with the same takeout structure GPW had?

I know I would.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post

Unpopular opinion 2: I don't want Hialeah to come back as a thoroughbred track. Yeah, I know, flamingos and it was great 70 years ago. The last version of Hialeah had ridiculous takeout levels and mediocre racing. I don't miss it, and we don't need more tracks like that. We can spray paint some of the Parx seagulls pink and pretend it's Hialeah if you want that 30% takeout.
Aparently little known fact: Parx reduced their takeout last January 1st.

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Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post
Unpopular opinion 3: Let Gulfstream take a break for a bit to build up some interest in their winter meet. Maybe the "summer" meet will suck less if trainers need to run. Maybe Tampa will get some of the excess horses and/or open earlier in the fall to fill the gap.

Stronach fought for 20 years to kill off Hialeah and then Calder, and he won the fight. But has he improved racing in any way in the state? He's only diluted his own brand. I think in retrospect he might be viewed in a more sympathetic light because of his willingness to throw multi-millions at racing at a time when few would, but for those who've watched his actions over the years, he's done more to hurt racing than help it.
Unpopular opinion: Gulfstream's summer meet is a very solid meet for betting, and a massive improvement over Calder's product. Handle is, I estimate, 3.5 x higher than Calder's was for the same dates. And so I feel Florida racing is significantly improved.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:17 AM   #8
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It would still be too much racing, but Gulfstream has three turf courses in reality. Hell, they've run three rail settings on the same day without taking the others down. They shuffle between the three courses.

Part of the problem IMO is that they use them all instead of just running inside, then moving to the middle, then moving to the outside. That gives the other portions of the course time to heal. But they give them all daily wear so no part ever gets a real break.
Plus, they don't care about actually timing the races, so that helps too.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:20 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post
Unpopular opinion: Calder was always a boring track with mediocre racing and while I don't want to see anyone unemployed, I won't miss watching or betting it.

Unpopular opinion 2: I don't want Hialeah to come back as a thoroughbred track. Yeah, I know, flamingos and it was great 70 years ago. The last version of Hialeah had ridiculous takeout levels and mediocre racing. I don't miss it, and we don't need more tracks like that. We can spray paint some of the Parx seagulls pink and pretend it's Hialeah if you want that 30% takeout.

Unpopular opinion 3: Let Gulfstream take a break for a bit to build up some interest in their winter meet. Maybe the "summer" meet will suck less if trainers need to run. Maybe Tampa will get some of the excess horses and/or open earlier in the fall to fill the gap.

Stronach fought for 20 years to kill off Hialeah and then Calder, and he won the fight. But has he improved racing in any way in the state? He's only diluted his own brand. I think in retrospect he might be viewed in a more sympathetic light because of his willingness to throw multi-millions at racing at a time when few would, but for those who've watched his actions over the years, he's done more to hurt racing than help it.
Agree with you about Hialeah. Not only do we need less tracks, but outside of a few special cases, the tracks we do need should be modern and comfortable and built to serve contemporary horseplayers and fans.

I get wistful that tracks i have been to no longer run, but the contraction of the industry is necessary.
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Old 12-02-2020, 02:22 AM   #10
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It would still be too much racing, but Gulfstream has three turf courses in reality. Hell, they've run three rail settings on the same day without taking the others down. They shuffle between the three courses.

Part of the problem IMO is that they use them all instead of just running inside, then moving to the middle, then moving to the outside. That gives the other portions of the course time to heal. But they give them all daily wear so no part ever gets a real break.
I agree, our widest and most well-kept turf courses, which I will limit to Laurel and Arlington, use a temporary rail that gets moved every weekend and thatís it. No deviations. Obviously AP does it for the Million

In regards to the post about Hialeah, I disagree. American racing now, maybe even more than ever, needs its Crown Jewels like this to be running legitimate meets with class. GP, regardless of its $10MM purse race and million foot tall statue, will never have the class of Hialeah. Itís still standing, itís been remodeled, get a landscaper out there for a weekend and put it on HD while we are all locked in our houses.
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Old 12-02-2020, 10:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster View Post
I agree, our widest and most well-kept turf courses, which I will limit to Laurel and Arlington, use a temporary rail that gets moved every weekend and thatís it. No deviations. Obviously AP does it for the Million

In regards to the post about Hialeah, I disagree. American racing now, maybe even more than ever, needs its Crown Jewels like this to be running legitimate meets with class. GP, regardless of its $10MM purse race and million foot tall statue, will never have the class of Hialeah. Itís still standing, itís been remodeled, get a landscaper out there for a weekend and put it on HD while we are all locked in our houses.
Actually Laurel uses multiple rail settings most days they have turf racing. But they keep it two most days. Laurel doesn't have nearly as long a meet when they can run on turf so it isn't as much of an issue.

Arlington also uses multiple rail settings on many days, but similar to Laurel, the meet isn't that long so it isn't as bad.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:11 AM   #12
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I agree, our widest and most well-kept turf courses, which I will limit to Laurel and Arlington, use a temporary rail that gets moved every weekend and thatís it. No deviations. Obviously AP does it for the Million

In regards to the post about Hialeah, I disagree. American racing now, maybe even more than ever, needs its Crown Jewels like this to be running legitimate meets with class. GP, regardless of its $10MM purse race and million foot tall statue, will never have the class of Hialeah. Itís still standing, itís been remodeled, get a landscaper out there for a weekend and put it on HD while we are all locked in our houses.
Most people don't want to go to old uncomfortable facilities. There are places like Fenway Park and Saratoga who have turned it into a virtue, but there's a reason many aging public facilities get rebuilt or renovated. (E.g., for every Saratoga or Fenway, there are several Comiskey Parks or Del Mars.)
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:58 PM   #13
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Unpopular opinion 2: I don't want Hialeah to come back as a thoroughbred track. Yeah, I know, flamingos and it was great 70 years ago.
We can spray paint some of the Parx seagulls pink and pretend it's Hialeah if you want that
Interestingly enough....
Spotted in Philly awhile back.
I mean....
This dude fits your request nicely.



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Old 12-02-2020, 10:16 PM   #14
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Most people don't want to go to old uncomfortable facilities. There are places like Fenway Park and Saratoga who have turned it into a virtue, but there's a reason many aging public facilities get rebuilt or renovated. (E.g., for every Saratoga or Fenway, there are several Comiskey Parks or Del Mars.)
I could be wrong because I donít know the ins and outs of how every state is handling this pandemic and who is allowing large groups in. I think at its peak, AP and HAW would allow 250 in but since we as a population seem intent on prolonging this as long as possible, itís now 0

So put something visually-appealing on tv, Hollywood is gone which iirc would be running right now. Put some damn flamingos on tv to make me forget about getting punted from the pick 5 in the first leg. Iíd rather see Citation in the sun than Aqueduct in December or some stupid overcompensating statue at Gulfstream. Brand is the most overlooked aspect in selling this sport and getting uninformed money into the pools for higher mutuels
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:12 AM   #15
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Well...damn

I hope GP doesn't take over the dates. South Florida NEEDS another race track. Gulfstream would die with all those horses running there and running the track to the ground year-round
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