Sports Wagering one step closer in NJ....

[Robert Goren]

Remember the power to tax is the same as the power to regulate. It was one of the early decisions of the Supreme Court. That ruling involved a local government want to tax church property, but it applies here. As long the state of NJ gets one penny from sports wagering, it can be argued that it is regulating it.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

The law as written and passed congress and signed by the president. Never said it was fair, only that it is the law.

That law only applies for state regulated sports wagering.

So what you are saying that a private enterprise sports wagering is subject to litagation but state regulated is okay.

Allan

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

That law only applies for state regulated sports wagering.

So what you are saying that a private enterprise sports wagering is subject to litagation but state regulated is okay.

Allan

That is one theory. The one pushed by NJ. We shall see if it holds up in court. I am pretty sure of one thing, nobody here has read the law. Even if it is true, they still have problem with the sports leagues using their product without their permission. There are a ton of legal questions. I still think that the courts will rule that taxation is regulation.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

That is one theory. The one pushed by NJ. We shall see if it holds up in court. I am pretty sure of one thing, nobody here has read the law. Even if it is true, they still have problem with the sports leagues using their product without their permission. There are a ton of legal questions. I still think that the courts will rule that taxation is regulation.

I have no idea how a sports league could regulate who bets on their sport. Does say William Hill take bets on the NFL? On say the English Premier League?

[SandyW]

I am sure there will be plenty of court action on Monday and Tuesday.
If the state of New Jersey takes one penny out of any bet that will be considered regulated.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

That is one theory. The one pushed by NJ. We shall see if it holds up in court. I am pretty sure of one thing, nobody here has read the law. Even if it is true, they still have problem with the sports leagues using their product without their permission. There are a ton of legal questions. I still think that the courts will rule that taxation is regulation.

I have read the law that was crafted by Lesniak. I commented on it several times but you insist NJ is regulating sw in some way shape or form and based on that egg shell theory the NFL will shut it down, am I correct in my assessment of your arguement?
Here is the bill read and enjoy.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2014/Bi...00/2460_I3.HTM

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I have read the law that was crafted by Lesniak. I commented on it several times but you insist NJ is regulating sw in some way shape or form and based on that egg shell theory the NFL will shut it down, am I correct in my assessment of your arguement?
Here is the bill read and enjoy.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2014/Bi...00/2460_I3.HTM

It does look like they tried to circumvent the Federal law based on one court decision. Whether they actually did or not is another matter to be decided in yet more court cases. Anybody that thinks the NFL and other sports leagues are going to lay down and roll over, has got another thought coming. The law I was referring to in my previous post is the Federal law. I would like to see SW legalized everywhere, but I believe that is going to take action by congress for a lot of reasons. I know you hope SW will bail out NJ racing, but even if NJ prevails, I doubt that it will.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

It does look like they tried to circumvent the Federal law based on one court decision.

That "one court decision" is the 3rd court of appeals opinion that SCOTUS refused to grant a writ of certiorari on appeal, Therefore it is the opinion of record regarding sports wagering in the United States. Really doubtful that a lower court would go against it. (like no chance).

The court clearly allows a state to circumvent PASPA by contouring its sports betting as it chooses.

New Jersey choose to deregulate its sports betting laws for racetracks and casinos.

It is now up to the NFL to prove that Jersey is somehow still authorizing by law sports betting.

Bet their lawyers have been up the last few nights. ;-)

Allan

[SandyW]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

That "one court decision" is the 3rd court of appeals opinion that SCOTUS refused to grant a writ of certiorari on appeal, Therefore it is the opinion of record regarding sports wagering in the United States. Really doubtful that a lower court would go against it. (like no chance).

The court clearly allows a state to circumvent PASPA by contouring its sports betting as it chooses.

New Jersey choose to deregulate its sports betting laws for racetracks and casinos.

It is now up to the NFL to prove that Jersey is somehow still authorizing by law sports betting.

Bet their lawyers have been up the last few nights. ;-)

Allan

If the NFL lawyers figured a way for Las Vegas not to use the word Super Bowl and have to call it The Big Game, blocking this in the short term will be easy for them.
The NFL and the other sports leagues own their product and will fight as hard as they can to protect it if they so choose to, so expect another battle royal this week.
The leagues will find a federal judge somewhere that will issue an injunction to block New Jersey. It is called judge shopping in the legal world.

[onefast99]

[QUOTE=SandyW]If the NFL lawyers figured a way for Las Vegas not to use the word Super Bowl and have to call it The Big Game, blocking this in the short term will be easy for them.
The NFL and the other sports leagues own their product and will fight as hard as they can to protect it if they so choose to, so expect another battle royal this week.
The leagues will find a federal judge somewhere that will issue an injunction to block New Jersey. It is called judge shopping in the legal world.[/QUOTE
I'm sure there will be plenty of briefs filed by the various sports leagues but based on the decisions made by the courts thus far it looks as if nj will be permitted to begin a soft sports wagering platform one week from today and only at monmouth park.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by SandyW

If the NFL lawyers figured a way for Las Vegas not to use the word Super Bowl and have to call it The Big Game, blocking this in the short term will be easy for them.
The NFL and the other sports leagues own their product and will fight as hard as they can to protect it if they so choose to, so expect another battle royal this week.
The leagues will find a federal judge somewhere that will issue an injunction to block New Jersey. It is called judge shopping in the legal world.

Short term you are right. Long term i would bet on jersey.

I think the language of the 3rd circuit opinion will hold sway at the end of the day

Allan

[bks]

SandyW wrote:

The NFL and the other sports leagues own their product

This is the long-term battleground. The owners will learn in time that they own no such thing, aside from the team names, something from which they will also be stripped of ownership in due time. Owners are anachronisms, and as cities and states continue to get squeezed economically it's only a matter of time until the teams become the property of their host geographical areas. The other possibility is that the players take control and cut the cities in for a much bigger piece of the pie.

Bookmark the post. Give it 20 years.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Let me assure you that every state plenty of them. NJ can't be in the top five or SW would have never passed. In Nebraska, we can't even get those slot machines that play old races because of them.

I am from NJ. And let me tell that there is no need for a sign to tell me I've crossed the state line. I can tell by just stepping out of my car and walking into a store or fast food joint if I hear the ever present nasal whiny griping about...hell NJ people get pissed off at sunshine because they thing it's going to increase their taxes
These people bitch about everything.
They bitch about their cell phone not working then complain about the cell phone tower proposal.
After 9/11 they complained about their tv reception. The temporary solution would be to have the NYC tv stations which broadcast from atop WTC 2 to be tranmitted from the Armstrong Tower in Alpine. OH NO!!! We can't have that!! The transmission of tv signals will harm our kids, they said.
It took 4 or 5 statewide referendums just to get a Sunday racing bill passed.
Number one reason people voted against it.....They thought it would raise their taxes.
DO you know why all of the off track wagering facility licenses are not in use? Because the towns where these things are proposed keep them out. Why? They voters don't know. All they know it represents a change and they are opposed to it.
They complain about the taxes the traffic, the tolls, the government, the governor, etc. Ask them why they live there and they tell they would not live anywhere else.
Logic? Please find it for me.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by bks

How so? All of us pay income tax. Are we therefore "regulated"? Regulation has a specific meaning, and simply sending money to an entity in accordance with tax laws does not meet the standard.

Now, does that mean the courts won't rule as you suggest? No. But they have no sound basis for doing so that I can see, as the new NJ law doesn't violate PASPA.

I understand Robert Goren is also an attorney.
Either that or he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thespaah

I am from NJ. And let me tell that there is no need for a sign to tell me I've crossed the state line. I can tell by just stepping out of my car and walking into a store or fast food joint if I hear the ever present nasal whiny griping about...hell NJ people get pissed off at sunshine because they thing it's going to increase their taxes
These people bitch about everything.
They bitch about their cell phone not working then complain about the cell phone tower proposal.
After 9/11 they complained about their tv reception. The temporary solution would be to have the NYC tv stations which broadcast from atop WTC 2 to be tranmitted from the Armstrong Tower in Alpine. OH NO!!! We can't have that!! The transmission of tv signals will harm our kids, they said.
It took 4 or 5 statewide referendums just to get a Sunday racing bill passed.
Number one reason people voted against it.....They thought it would raise their taxes.
DO you know why all of the off track wagering facility licenses are not in use? Because the towns where these things are proposed keep them out. Why? They voters don't know. All they know it represents a change and they are opposed to it.
They complain about the taxes the traffic, the tolls, the government, the governor, etc. Ask them why they live there and they tell they would not live anywhere else.
Logic? Please find it for me.

Thespaah, New Jersey is so beautiful it's called the "Garden State"......just get rid of it's residents, and problem solved.