Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Because you must live in the present,not the past.

For a supposedly "spiritually enlightened" person who has filled himself with all this spiritual knowledge from mountain of books, you have a really tough time understanding that that which is eternal can never have an expiration date on it. (Does God have an expiration date stamped on Him somewhere? ) In God's eyes, [b]everything is only NOW -- only PRESENT. And scripture teaches that God's Word is eternal. What part of this don't you get? Your "best friend" even said that his words will never pass away -- but you say they have -- that they have become irrelevant! Why can't you believe your "best friend"?

You refuse to believe that God is within as Jesus said. This is the single most important thing that Jesus said, yet you deny it.

Ohh...It's the single most important thing Jesus ever said? Okay, whatever you say. Then your "best friend" must have been very confused or a bad liar because if he said what you think he did, he contradicted himself in several places in scripture. For example, since the kingdom of God requires having the gift of the Holy Spirit, those Pharisees could not have had the kingdom within them since the gift of the Spirit was not given until 50 days after Christ's resurrection. The time line is is kinda off. You know what I mean, Jelly Bean? And...when it was poured out on Pentecost, it was only given to believers! Read Acts 2.

What Jesus said is backed up multiple times in the Bible:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.

John 14:20

In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Hebrews 13:5
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

To whom were these epistles written? They weren't written to the world; they were all addressed to the saints of God! Let's look at these in the order you presented your "proof texts":

1 Cor 1:2
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ — their Lord and ours:
NIV

Pretty self-explanatory. This was written to one of God's churches! How ironic you quote this when you most likely wouldn't be caught dead walking into an evangelical Christian church!

Rom 1:7a-8
7 To all in Rome who are LOVED by God and called to be saints:

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, BECAUSE YOUR FAITH is being reported all over the world.

Clearly this letter was written only God's elect -- those called by God to be saints. These were believers, according to v. 8. And we already know that God can only love repentant sinners who are in Christ because God hates evil. Scripture says so, but you refuse to believe this truth. God can legally and morally love these kinds of sinners because his love is grounded in the merits of Christ's redemptive work on their behalf. Because God predestined them in eternity to be identified with the Son, they in time actually become one with Christ. This is the only way God can love a sinner.

In John 14, Jesus was directing all his remarks to his disciples, not to the world. In fact, the first promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to these disciples in v. 25. (again proving that since the Spirit was given during Christ's first advent, the Pharisees could not possibly have the kingdom of God "within" them. These remarks, incidentally, were actually made at the Last Supper. I don't think the whole world was invited to that Supper.

Heb 1:1-3
1:1 In the past God spoke to OUR FOREFATHERS THROUGH THE PROPHETS at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to US by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
NIV

So...unless everyone in the world has Jewish forefathers and knows who the Jewish prophets were and what they taught, I'd say this epistle was written specifically to Jewish believers in the Messiah. Also take note of the personal pronouns. (Little hint: This is probably why the Epistle is called "Hebrews", O Enlightened One.

So, in addition to you being a liar and a hypocrite, you are also downright dishonest. It is indeed dishonest to quote anyone or any texts our of context, and you have done this repeatedly in this post. In fact, this is akin to lying! That "eye" of yours ain't lookin' so single these days, Mr. Spirituality.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

You refuse to believe that God is within as Jesus said. This is the single most important thing that Jesus said, yet you deny it.

Got a wee bit quiet over here. What happened: Did you swallow your tongue and choke on it? Or are you trying to figure out how anyone or anything that is eternal has no beginning or end -- that there are no Yesterdays or Tomorrows in that which is eternal? Therefore, what is eternal can only be now -- can only be the present, which of course makes your case quite nicely that truth has to be current in order to be relevant. (But I'm sure you'll come up with another excuse for why the scriptures are irrelevant.) Whatever is eternal is always current! Have any of the gurus you've read claim that "their truth" is eternal? That their words will never pass away? That heaven and earth will pass away first before their words do? Your "best friend", on the other hand, said all these things.

But to the specific point of this post: You intimate above that Lk 17:21 is the single most important text in the bible, right? I venture to say that if you truly understood what the Kingdom of God is, you would never have said this! For the kingdom of God is two things: It's God' sovereign rule over the nations of this world as He steers redemptive history to its end (Ps 22:28; 66:7; 103:19; Dan 4:26, etc. AND it is God's sovereign reign in the individual hearts of his chosen people (Ezek 36:27; Lk 6:46; 13:18-21; 19:14, 27, Rom 8:14 etc.

Since the Pharisees were always in open rebellion against God and his Christ, it should be obvious to anyone with eyes in their head to see that these religious leaders never had the kingdom (the reign of Christ through the Holy Spirit) in them. The only kingdom that ruled them from within was the kingdom of their father (the devil), which is the kingdom of darkness. To say that they had God's holy kingdom within them, while they simultaneously hated God and his Christ is not only a contradiction in terms, but blasphemes God because it implies that God was impotent and not able to rule in the hearts of his enemies. Yet, we know from other passages that nothing is impossible with God (Lk 1:37; Mat 19:26), that nothing is too difficult for God (Gen 18:14); Jer:32:17, etc.) Now contrast all these verses in this paragraph with Ezek 36:27 and Rom 8:14 and how the King of kings and Lord of lords is able to subdue the most rebellious of hearts in his elect!

Your god is an idol of your vain imagination. He's impotent. Weak. Ineffective. Useless. Unreliable. Untrustworthy. You can have him or it...or whatever you think your god is.

[Light]

I was told recently by spirits that your ego is of the self-flagellating type. You have my sympathy.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I was told recently by spirits that your ego is of the self-flagellating type. You have my sympathy.

Without doubt by evil spirits. Perhaps even by your [spiritual] father himself. You and he have a common pastime -- lying.

[boxcar]

After Martha complained about her sister Mary to Jesus in Luke 10, he told her that at the end of the day there was only one thing needed, and since Mary had chosen that which is better, it would not be taken away from. That "one thing" consisted of two elements: Jesus teaching the Word and applying it to Mary's heart.

To be born again -- to experience the new birth -- the birth from above -- requires two critically important components: The Word of God and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, there is a strong analogy here between physical birth and spiritual birth. Just as it takes a man and a woman to "create" a child, likewise it takes the Word and the Spirit of God to make an elect child of God a new creation (2Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15).

2 Thess 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
NIV

And,

1 Peter 1:2
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
NIV

This truth is implicit in the above text because to be obedient to Christ, one must know his will and that is revealed only in scripture.

Then we have a couple of examples of applications of this great truth:

Acts 16:14
14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia , a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.
NIV

Paul's "message" would have been the gospel, of course.

And,

Acts 13:48
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
NIV

So...in all these passages God's Word (or the outward call of the gospel) needs to be supernaturally applied internally to the heart of the one hearing it, otherwise people will not and, indeed, cannot respond positively to the message of life.

Don't let anyone deceive you into believing differently.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Without doubt by evil spirits. Perhaps even by your [spiritual] father himself. You and he have a common pastime -- lying.

I can tell the difference between an evil spirit and a guiding spirit. Its you who follow evil ways in your guise of being some elite Christian which right there is your downfall from Grace.

According to you, me and most of the people are going into the lake of fire. You are a chosen one according to your idiocy. You can't even see how saying that is against God. Because only God knows people on a deeper level than they know themselves. You know squat.

You make coming to God very difficult for anyone. All who have been here are revolted by the things you say in the name of God. You claim that humanity is inherently evil, filthy and will be roasted and toasted at the end. BTW, where did you get your doom and gloom sandwich board, Amazon?

It's very easy to know if someone is a person of God because God is love. You spread hate. The spirits are right about you because what you say is a reflection of what is in you. You use your religion as a channel for your hate and therefore extract the parts of the Bible that appeal to your negative self image. Many other Christians understand that God is love and therefore extract the parts of the Bible that are positive and uplifting. BTW, this is how life works as well. Separate the wheat from the chaff.

Here you will interject that one must accept ALL that is in the Bible. That would be true if you have irrefutable evidence that every word of the Bible is from God. There is no evidence of that but mountains of evidence to the contrary including the phrase of "God is within you" which the King James version of the Bible has never changed. Right there is a monumental hypocrisy. If God is within, then its a totally different Christian ballgame especially for people like you who do not know who they are beyond their ego.

We also know there was nothing written for the Bible till 50 years after Jesus died. Accuracy becomes an issue there. We also know there was mass corruption in the church and only certain texts were allowed to be in the Bible based on political bias not on God. That's just scratching the surface , let alone the translation errors and different versions of the Bible.

That is why I cherry pick the Bible. You can't be sure what is God and what is man in it. Common sense can tell what a supreme God of love would say and what he wouldn't. You obviously struggle with that. That's OK. Everyone grows eventually.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I can tell the difference between an evil spirit and a guiding spirit. Its you who follow evil ways in your guise of being some elite Christian which right there is your downfall from Grace.

According to you, me and most of the people are going into the lake of fire. You are a chosen one according to your idiocy. You can't even see how saying that is against God. Because only God knows people on a deeper level than they know themselves. You know squat.

You make coming to God very difficult for anyone. All who have been here are revolted by the things you say in the name of God. You claim that humanity is inherently evil, filthy and will be roasted and toasted at the end. BTW, where did you get your doom and gloom sandwich board, Amazon?

It's very easy to know if someone is a person of God because God is love. You spread hate. The spirits are right about you because what you say is a reflection of what is in you. You use your religion as a channel for your hate and therefore extract the parts of the Bible that appeal to your negative self image. Many other Christians understand that God is love and therefore extract the parts of the Bible that are positive and uplifting. BTW, this is how life works as well. Separate the wheat from the chaff.

Here you will interject that one must accept ALL that is in the Bible. That would be true if you have irrefutable evidence that every word of the Bible is from God. There is no evidence of that but mountains of evidence to the contrary including the phrase of "God is within you" which the King James version of the Bible has never changed. Right there is a monumental hypocrisy. If God is within, then its a totally different Christian ballgame especially for people like you who do not know who they are beyond their ego.

We also know there was nothing written for the Bible till 50 years after Jesus died. Accuracy becomes an issue there. We also know there was mass corruption in the church and only certain texts were allowed to be in the Bible based on political bias not on God. That's just scratching the surface , let alone the translation errors and different versions of the Bible.

That is why I cherry pick the Bible. You can't be sure what is God and what is man in it. Common sense can tell what a supreme God of love would say and what he wouldn't. You obviously struggle with that. That's OK. Everyone grows eventually.

No, "common sense" would not tell an unrepentant sinner that because his mind is in [spiritual] darkness! In fact, all fallen mankind is darkness itself (Eph 5:8), so man, apart from God's supernatural intervention, is incapable of understanding spiritual truth, which renders his "common sense" about as useful as a third eye in the middle of your head! Man LOVES darkness because his deeds are evil (Jn 3:19).

And what an utterly stupid statement that there was "nothing written for the Bible until 50 years after Jesus died. That means the OT, too? And for your info, all the NT was written prior to 70 A.D., which is 40 years after Christ's resurrection. In other words, the entire NT was written within his generation.

I am fully convinced that all the bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God. In all my years as a Christian studying the scriptures, I have never found a single contradiction in those 66 books written by 40 or so men over a period of about 1,500 years in any matters of orthodoxy or orthopraxy! "Common sense" should tell you that's pretty darn good evidence -- but because you are still in your father's kingdom of darkness, you cannot understand this. Or stated another way, the bible is infinitely more consistent, trustworthy and credible than you are! I'll take God's word any day over your word!

I don't make coming to God difficult for anyone, for no one can come to Christ unless his Father grants it! It's as simple as that. NO ONE CAN COME to Jesus unless the Father sovereignly grants it.

John 6:44
44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
NIV

And,

John 6:65
65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
NIV

Shirely, you believe your "best friend", don't you?

And didn't you're "best friend" also teach

Matt 22:14
14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."?
NIV

Or this:

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction , and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ?
NIV

So, deceiver, its not according to me that most will end up in the lake of fire, it's according to your "best friend". I'm just the messenger repeating Jesus' message!

Again, your "best friend" said all humanity is evil! Since he said, only God alone is good, then what does that logically imply about humanity? Or what part of "you being evil", don't you get (Mat 7:11; 12:34)?

But you don't like these kinds of passages, so you just "cherry pick" 'em by your own admission. Whatever tickles your ears, you retain. But what doesn't, you toss. What tickles your fancy is relevant; all the rest is irrelevant. Duplicitious much? And you claim to walk around with the love of God in your soul!?

And how is divine predestination and unconditional election "against God"? If it weren't for God intervening on the behalf of many, no one would be saved because man is incapable of changing his evil nature. To the contrary! These two doctrines speak to unfathomable, incomprehensible love, kindness patience, mercy and grace that God has granted to and for his chosen people.

Finally, the kingdom of God was not within the Pharisees because the Holy Spirit wasn't given until 50 days after Christ's ressurection. (And this is only one reason among at least a dozen others!) But I have never denied that the kingdom of God is within God's chosen ones because the bible teaches this truth. Only God's elect are given the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No, "common sense" would not tell an unrepentant sinner that because his mind is in [spiritual] darkness! In fact, all fallen mankind is darkness itself (Eph 5:8), so man, apart from God's supernatural intervention, is incapable of understanding spiritual truth, which renders his "common sense" about as useful as a third eye in the middle of your head! Man LOVES darkness because his deeds are evil (Jn 3:19).

And what an utterly stupid statement that there was "nothing written for the Bible until 50 years after Jesus died. That means the OT, too? And for your info, all the NT was written prior to 70 A.D., which is 40 years after Christ's resurrection. In other words, the entire NT was written within his generation.

I am fully convinced that all the bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God. In all my years as a Christian studying the scriptures, I have never found a single contradiction in those 66 books written by 40 or so men over a period of about 1,500 years in any matters of orthodoxy or orthopraxy! "Common sense" should tell you that's pretty darn good evidence -- but because you are still in your father's kingdom of darkness, you cannot understand this. Or stated another way, the bible is infinitely more consistent, trustworthy and credible than you are! I'll take God's word any day over your word!

I don't make coming to God difficult for anyone, for no one can come to Christ unless his Father grants it! It's as simple as that. NO ONE CAN COME to Jesus unless the Father sovereignly grants it.

John 6:44
44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
NIV

And,

John 6:65
65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
NIV

Shirely, you believe your "best friend", don't you?

And didn't you're "best friend" also teach

Matt 22:14
14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."?
NIV

Or this:

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction , and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ?
NIV

So, deceiver, its not according to me that most will end up in the lake of fire, it's according to your "best friend". I'm just the messenger repeating Jesus' message!

Again, your "best friend" said all humanity is evil! Since he said, only God alone is good, then what does that logically imply about humanity? Or what part of "you being evil", don't you get (Mat 7:11; 12:34)?

But you don't like these kinds of passages, so you just "cherry pick" 'em by your own admission. Whatever tickles your ears, you retain. But what doesn't, you toss. What tickles your fancy is relevant; all the rest is irrelevant. Duplicitious much? And you claim to walk around with the love of God in your soul!?

And how is divine predestination and unconditional election "against God"? If it weren't for God intervening on the behalf of many, no one would be saved because man is incapable of changing his evil nature. To the contrary! These two doctrines speak to unfathomable, incomprehensible love, kindness patience, mercy and grace that God has granted to and for his chosen people.

Finally, the kingdom of God was not within the Pharisees because the Holy Spirit wasn't given until 50 days after Christ's ressurection. (And this is only one reason among at least a dozen others!) But I have never denied that the kingdom of God is within God's chosen ones because the bible teaches this truth. Only God's elect are given the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Here is what you clearly do not understand about the biggest fallacy in the Bible.

All the atrocities ever committed on this planet combined, would not come close to equaling the atrocity of torturing trillions of people in a lake of fire for eternity. This is who you want people to follow? Do as I say not as I do? Someone who is basically a God of demons, because this is what demons do. You are insane. Passages of God's Anger and Wrath are clearly written by fearful, ignorant, superstitious, and absolutely stupid men, not God.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Here is what you clearly do not understand about the biggest fallacy in the Bible.

All the atrocities ever committed on this planet combined, would not come close to equaling the atrocity of torturing trillions of people in a lake of fire for eternity. This is who you want people to follow? Do as I say not as I do? Someone who is basically a God of demons, because this is what demons do. You are insane. Passages of God's Anger and Wrath are clearly written by fearful, ignorant, superstitious, and absolutely stupid men, not God.

Here's what you don't understand about the biggest fallacy of idol worship, which includes your fanciful Far East mysticism, spirituality, religion, whatever:

God cannot dwell with evil. All evil is infinitely offensive to God which is why he hates all that is evil; therefore, all unrighteous, moral, rational entities must be punished for all eternity -- UNLESS they accept God's gracious offer of the free gift of salvation, which is only in Christ. Only Jesus totally satisfied God's wrath and justice. Only Jesus is the sinless one who lived the perfect life we're required to live but are incapable of living, and suffered the penalty of death that we all deserve.

Scripture says that the Cross of Christ at once demonstrates the love of God and the justice of God.

Rom 3:25-26
25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the PRESENT time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
NIV

So...the present is all-important to you, right? Well then, why can't you fully embrace this passage with all your heart?

and,

Rom 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: Whilewe were still sinners, Christ died for us.
NIV

Who are the "us" and "we" in the context of this epistle?

Rom 1:6-8
6 And YOU also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace and peace to YOU from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of YOU, because YOUR faith is being reported all over the world
NIV

This epistle was written to people who belong to Christ, to those who are loved by God and called to be saints, to those who have true faith -- faith that believes God and doesn't dream up a 1,001 excuses to reject his inspired revelation.

It's really sad that in your dark state of spiritual death that you cannot understand this simple but profound truth. Your fallen, dark, depraved mind is incapable of understanding the great spiritual truth that God's love and justice are not a contradiction in terms. They're not because God's only Begotten Son fully satisfied God's justice on behalf of all those who would believe in him with their heart and repent of their sins. But since you freely consider yourself unworthy to participate in God's redemptive plan, then your rejection of it will result in your just punishment. If you don't want to accept God on his terms in this life, you would be loathe to spend eternity with him in the next.

P.S. There are no second chances in the next life. Every single one of us has a "second chance" when we live to see a new day dawn in this life. Just for your info. You're 67 years old? Multiply those years by the number of days they encompass and you'll figure out all the second chances you've had already. One of the biggest "fiery" torments of your soul in the lake of fire will be contemplating forever your utter stupidity for never availing yourself of one of those second chances while you had the chance.

[Redboard]

Today’s biblical scholars (i.e., college professors who teach religion) believe the gospel of Mark to be written first (around 70AD), then Matthew (AD 80 - 90),and Luke (AD 80–110), followed by John(AD 90–110). Both Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source, but they didn’t have each other's because, for one, some stories are different in Matthew and Luke.

For example, the Christmas story. Joseph dominates Matthew's story and Mary dominates Luke's. Matthew implies that Joseph already has his home in Bethlehem, while Luke states that he lived in Nazareth. In Matthew the angel speaks to Joseph, while Luke has one speaking to Mary. Only Luke has: the stories surrounding the birth of John the Baptist, the census of Quirinius(which historians are convinced beyond a doubt, happened in 6 AD, Jesus was born between 6 and 4 BC), the adoration of the shepherds and the presentation in the Temple on the eighth day; only Matthew has: the wise men, the star of Bethlehem, Herod's plot, the massacre of the innocents, and the flight into Egypt. The two itineraries are quite different, Matthew's Holy Family beginning in Bethlehem, moving to Egypt following the birth, and settling in Nazareth, while in Luke they begin in Nazareth, journey to Bethlehem for the birth, and an immediate return to Nazareth.

The Lord’s prayer is not in Mark’s gospel, but it is in identical Greek text in both Luke’s and Matthew’s. This is one reason why scholars believe that there must have been another gospel, which they call Q, that Luke and Matthew had access to.

Here is a pic of the earliest manuscript of New Testament text ever found. It is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John 18:31–33:, written in Greek. Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century, although other scholars date it as late as AD 200. There is no consensus.

For over 300 years, up until 330 AD, it was a crime to call yourself a Christian in the Roman empire, and also a crime to own a copy of the Gospels, so it’s not surprising that there are not older versions found, including any in the language that Jesus and the apostles actually spoke, Aramaic.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Today’s biblical scholars (i.e., college professors who teach religion) believe the gospel of Mark to be written first (around 70AD), then Matthew (AD 80 - 90),and Luke (AD 80–110), followed by John(AD 90–110). Both Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source, but they didn’t have each other's because, for one, some stories are different in Matthew and Luke.

For example, the Christmas story. Joseph dominates Matthew's story and Mary dominates Luke's. Matthew implies that Joseph already has his home in Bethlehem, while Luke states that he lived in Nazareth. In Matthew the angel speaks to Joseph, while Luke has one speaking to Mary. Only Luke has: the stories surrounding the birth of John the Baptist, the census of Quirinius(which historians are convinced beyond a doubt, happened in 6 AD, Jesus was born between 6 and 4 BC), the adoration of the shepherds and the presentation in the Temple on the eighth day; only Matthew has: the wise men, the star of Bethlehem, Herod's plot, the massacre of the innocents, and the flight into Egypt. The two itineraries are quite different, Matthew's Holy Family beginning in Bethlehem, moving to Egypt following the birth, and settling in Nazareth, while in Luke they begin in Nazareth, journey to Bethlehem for the birth, and an immediate return to Nazareth.

The Lord’s prayer is not in Mark’s gospel, but it is in identical Greek text in both Luke’s and Matthew’s. This is one reason why scholars believe that there must have been another gospel, which they call Q, that Luke and Matthew had access to.

Here is a pic of the earliest manuscript of New Testament text ever found. It is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John 18:31–33:, written in Greek. Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century, although other scholars date it as late as AD 200. There is no consensus.

For over 300 years, up until 330 AD, it was a crime to call yourself a Christian in the Roman empire, and also a crime to own a copy of the Gospels, so it’s not surprising that there are not older versions found, including any in the language that Jesus and the apostles actually spoke, Aramaic.

The differences in the Gospel exist because of who the primary audiences were in each, which in turn determined the overall theme of each Gospel. Matthew's Gospel highlights Joseph because Matthew's audience was primary Jewish. This is one of the reasons why Matthew starts off his Gospel with a genealogy to determine Joseph's lineage which was the family of David. (This is why Jesus was called the Son of David.) And Bethlehem is stressed in Matthew because of Micah's prophecy in chapter 5, plus Bethlehem was king David's city.

Luke's Gospel was written primarily to a Gentile audience, which is why the genealogy in it goes all the way back to Adam -- who certainly wasn't Jewish -- but rather was the father of the entire human race -- Jews and Gentiles. Nazareth was stressed in Luke because Nazareth was in Galilee which was really the home of many Gentiles and also fulfilled prophecy in Isaiah 9.

And so it goes. These subtleties escape the attention of most unbelievers and virtually all liberal scholars. The vast majority of conservative scholars believe that all but Revelation in the NT was written prior to 70 A.D. However, I side with the minority of such scholars with respect to Revelation because I find the evidence to be compelling that this book, too, was written prior to the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. It was probably written around 65 or 66 A.D.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Here's what you don't understand about the biggest fallacy of idol worship, which includes your fanciful Far East mysticism, spirituality, religion, whatever:

God cannot dwell with evil. All evil is infinitely offensive to God which is why he hates all that is evil; therefore, all unrighteous, moral, rational entities must be punished for all eternity -- UNLESS they accept God's gracious offer of the free gift of salvation, which is only in Christ. Only Jesus totally satisfied God's wrath and justice. Only Jesus is the sinless one who lived the perfect life we're required to live but are incapable of living, and suffered the penalty of death that we all deserve.

Scripture says that the Cross of Christ at once demonstrates the love of God and the justice of God.

Rom 3:25-26
25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the PRESENT time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
NIV

So...the present is all-important to you, right? Well then, why can't you fully embrace this passage with all your heart?

and,

Rom 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: Whilewe were still sinners, Christ died for us.
NIV

Who are the "us" and "we" in the context of this epistle?

Rom 1:6-8
6 And YOU also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace and peace to YOU from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of YOU, because YOUR faith is being reported all over the world
NIV

This epistle was written to people who belong to Christ, to those who are loved by God and called to be saints, to those who have true faith -- faith that believes God and doesn't dream up a 1,001 excuses to reject his inspired revelation.

It's really sad that in your dark state of spiritual death that you cannot understand this simple but profound truth. Your fallen, dark, depraved mind is incapable of understanding the great spiritual truth that God's love and justice are not a contradiction in terms. They're not because God's only Begotten Son fully satisfied God's justice on behalf of all those who would believe in him with their heart and repent of their sins. But since you freely consider yourself unworthy to participate in God's redemptive plan, then your rejection of it will result in your just punishment. If you don't want to accept God on his terms in this life, you would be loathe to spend eternity with him in the next.

P.S. There are no second chances in the next life. Every single one of us has a "second chance" when we live to see a new day dawn in this life. Just for your info. You're 67 years old? Multiply those years by the number of days they encompass and you'll figure out all the second chances you've had already. One of the biggest "fiery" torments of your soul in the lake of fire will be contemplating forever your utter stupidity for never availing yourself of one of those second chances while you had the chance.

None of this addressed or refuted what I said.

I repeat, you believe the stupid Biblical idea that God is just and Holy if he sends trillions of loved ones to Hell when we as a species find that morally abominable when men did that to each other like Hitler did.

Why is it a mammoth sin to burn Jews in the ovens like Hitler did but God is Holy and just to roast them for an eternity? You can't see what hypocrisy and moral depravity that is?

Either this notion of eternal Hellish punishment is written by men and not God or your God is a demon. It cannot be justified.

You cannot address real questions like these when they are presented to you and that shows how weak your beliefs are.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

None of this addressed or refuted what I said.

I repeat, you believe the stupid Biblical idea that God is just and Holy if he sends trillions of loved ones to Hell when we as a species find that morally abominable when men did that to each other like Hitler did.

Why is it a mammoth sin to burn Jews in the ovens like Hitler did but God is Holy and just to roast them for an eternity? You can't see what hypocrisy and moral depravity that is?

Either this notion of eternal Hellish punishment is written by men and not God or your God is a demon. It cannot be justified.

You cannot address real questions like these when they are presented to you and that shows how weak your beliefs are.

Of course, eternal punishment can be justified; for God is infinitely, which makes all sin infinitely offensive to him. Man's sin problem is so huge that it took God to provide a remedy for it. He took on flesh in his Son to die for sinners so that they might live! He paid his own penalty for the sin of others!

So...the question you need to answer is this: Since God could not spare his own holy and righteous Son and required his death so that his atonement could be legally applied to sinners, then what makes you think that he will spare any unrepentant, unbelieving sinner?

And you should be the last one on this forum talking about "weak" someone's beliefs are when you have never once on this thread refuted any of my arguments! I presented at least a 12-point argument as to why you loony interpretation of Lk17:21 is wrong. I presented numerous scriptures (personally and via links) showing what God loves and what He hates.

And now you put on display once again the very obvious cognitive dissonance resident in your heart and mind due to your version of an "all-loving" God who loves everything and everyone under the sun, by bringing up the Holocaust. In your loony religious/spiritual beliefs God LOVES those who massacred the Jews in ovens, and as soon as they died He welcomed them with open arms into his holy presence. And as we speak, they are living the good life in spite of their heinous crimes. Yet, you question the God of the bible, even though as a Just God those people are very likely in hell right now, as we speak, justly suffering for their crimes against humanity! God judges with righteousness because that is who he is. God gives sinners exactly what they deserve, unlike the Nazi criminals who roasted Jews in ovens! How can a righteous judge be characterized as a criminal for judging criminals who broke the law? This is precisely what you're doing! You blaspheme God by putting him in the same boat with real criminals. What law is God breaking by judging sinners!?

So, tell me: Who is just here: The Nazi criminals who you say God loves deeply in spite of their vile crimes, or the righteous God of the bible who punishes every sinner as his deeds deserve? I'll take the God of the bible any day or your version of him! I would want no part of any deity whose love for the most revolting, rebellious, ungodly, unrepentant sinners would signal even the slightest hint of support, condoning or approval of evil! How could I ever trust such a god!? Heaven would be filled with more sinners than saints. And such a place would be Paradise? That sounds like a place the dimwits would love -- another dystopian hell hole! I would want no part of any god whose love wasn't impeccably moral and righteous and holy. Didn't the Nazi criminals, too, love their dirty deeds!? So, just how would your god differ from them!?

[boxcar]

Question: "How can a loving God send someone to hell?"

God gave us the freedom to choose how we respond to Him. If He forced us to love Him, we would be robots. To give us no option but obedience would be a violation of our free will. Love is only love when it is voluntary. We cannot love God unless we have the option of not loving Him. Because God honors our autonomy, He will never force surrender or loyalty. However, there are consequences for either choice. C. S. Lewis summarizes this truth in his classic work, The Great Divorce: “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ All that are in Hell, choose it.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm

Not only that but most of phrase the question as presented above, not realizing it's totally fallacious.

[Light]

Your response to this major question is like I am listening to a two year old. Let me know when you grow up.