The Downside of the Voided Claim Rule

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by EasyGoer89

The vet of the new claimant should be able to examine the horse if the track vet voids it and they should determine if they want the horse or not. Seems that would be a more transparent way rather than blindly accepting the 'findings' of a person who may or may not be biased in some way.

Why not just ask to buy the horse privately and vet him out. If it doesn't vet the owner can put him back in the claimers and eventually someone will take him as the stewards will have to let the claim stand.

[mountainman]

Anecdotes unrelated to this incident come to mind. Some horsemen, for instance, purposely make errors when filling out a claim slip. The objective is to intimidate the horse's connections into a class raise.

Another trainer would enter horses at a fraction of value, lurk in the hall waiting to hear "all clear" from the official checking the box, and only THEN turn in the runners coggins papers to narrowly avoid a late scratch.

I could go on.........

[dilanesp]

I should mention that Mario Guttierez did a great job on his ride of Jimmy Bouncer. Saved all the ground in the world.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Why not just ask to buy the horse privately and vet him out. If it doesn't vet the owner can put him back in the claimers and eventually someone will take him as the stewards will have to let the claim stand.

You own horses. Imagined you had a horse that could win in a couple spots in the condition book AND it couldn't be claimed in those races. Why would you ever sell him? The horse is literally an ATM. Basically he could be a legit $12,000 claimer and you could run him for $8k and the claims are voided.

[cj]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

You own horses. Imagined you had a horse that could win in a couple spots in the condition book AND it couldn't be claimed in those races. Why would you ever sell him? The horse is literally an ATM. Basically he could be a legit $12,000 claimer and you could run him for $8k and the claims are voided.

And this horse is obviously much better than that.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Anecdotes unrelated to this incident come to mind. Some horsemen, for instance, purposely make errors when filling out a claim slip. The objective is to intimidate the horse's connections into a class raise.

Another trainer would enter horses at a fraction of value, lurk in the hall waiting to hear "all clear" from the official checking the box, and only THEN turn in the runners coggins papers to narrowly avoid a late scratch.

I could go on.........

They don't have to have the coggins to enter the grounds?

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

You own horses. Imagined you had a horse that could win in a couple spots in the condition book AND it couldn't be claimed in those races. Why would you ever sell him? The horse is literally an ATM. Basically he could be a legit $12,000 claimer and you could run him for $8k and the claims are voided.

In the claiming game you put the horse in a spot to win. In some cases connections are looking to get rid of a horse and as the old saying goes in this and any other transaction in life "Caveat emptor ". Does anyone know why this particular horse continues to get the claims voided?
And to answer your question yes I would love to put a horse in a spot I couldn't lose in and not worry about losing him!

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

There should be a rule in place like there is for bleeders. Too many episodes, you're out.

From a search of the rule book on the CHRB website, there are indeed safeguards against a mythical "unclaimable" horse.

1) a claimant can elect "to claim the horse regardless of whether the racing or official veterinarian determines the horse will be placed on the Veterinarian's List as unsound or lame." This has to be done prior to the race.

2) a horse that is placed on the Veterinarian's List multiple times is ineligible to be removed from the list (and thus ineligible to start) for increasing lengths of time. This is true of both horses that bleed and those that are unsound. In the case of bleeders there is the possibility of a lifetime ban.

Coincidentally, the horse in question has been a voided claim for different reasons. In February, according to the equibase chart, the horse bled out the nostrils and was vanned off. But the CHRB Vet List has him currently listed as unsound. Both unsoundness and bleeding are grounds for voiding a claim.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

From a search of the rule book on the CHRB website, there are indeed safeguards against a mythical "unclaimable" horse.

1) a claimant can elect "to claim the horse regardless of whether the racing or official veterinarian determines the horse will be placed on the Veterinarian's List as unsound or lame." This has to be done prior to the race.

2) a horse that is placed on the Veterinarian's List multiple times is ineligible to be removed from the list (and thus ineligible to start) for increasing lengths of time. This is true of both horses that bleed and those that are unsound. In the case of bleeders there is the possibility of a lifetime ban.

Coincidentally, the horse in question has been a voided claim for different reasons. In February, according to the equibase chart, the horse bled out the nostrils and was vanned off. But the CHRB Vet List has him currently listed as unsound. Both unsoundness and bleeding are grounds for voiding a claim.

Thanks, good info. Surprised the trainers didn't elect for #1 seeing how they had to know it is a distinct possibility and still want the horse.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Thanks, good info. Surprised the trainers didn't elect for #1 seeing how they had to know it is a distinct possibility and still want the horse.

Well if the other quoted rules make it difficult to run the horse, that would be a factor in invoking 1.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

They don't have to have the coggins to enter the grounds?

Not back then..Bobby King is the horseman I alluded to...and even then he would pull this off with expired coggins slips on horses already stabled here..his way of working the system was just a bit more complex than that, but I'm sure you get the gist, sir

from an official's side of the counter, i've observed ways of beating the system that would blow your mind...........and, just for fun, as a mental exercise, i've devised a few of my own...but , sadly, a book entitled "Running Ringers for Dummies," would probably be frowned upon...

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Why not just ask to buy the horse privately and vet him out. If it doesn't vet the owner can put him back in the claimers and eventually someone will take him as the stewards will have to let the claim stand.

I'd prefer no claiming races at all, this way owners who own horses can keep them if they want. Not all owners want to be forced to sell horses they own, some actually maybe want to enjoy ownership a little longer.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by EasyGoer89

I'd prefer no claiming races at all, this way owners who own horses can keep them if they want. Not all owners want to be forced to sell horses they own, some actually maybe want to enjoy ownership a little longer.

The claiming system is probably the best system ever invented in terms of creating competitive bettable races.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The claiming system is probably the best system ever invented in terms of creating competitive bettable races.

Just ask the guys who claimed Lava Man!!!!or the 100's of other horses who went on to win a lot of money after being claimed for small amounts...Rapid Redux 22 straight wins...it is a great game and that is how we got introduced into it.

[EasyGoer89]

This void angle is turning into a cash cow, do any of these voids miss the ticket?

Shouldn't these horses be automatic throwouts for Smart handicappers with an almost impeccable success rate?

It all looks shady.