Jockey Club Reaction

[Premier Turf Club]

Originally Posted by Rook

I would love to give a hand to ALB. For the first time in my I bet on your track this week. One thing that needs to be fixed is that 10 cent ALB supers are currently unavailable through PTC and with only $1,800 pools, a $1 minimum doesn't encourage much action.

Rook,

They should/will be. I didn't know;that's an Amtote pool definition I will have fixed.

Ian

[boomman]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Guys, the petition was a complete success in a SMALL amount of time! Congrats on getting the highest levels of the sport to acknowledge our concerns! That was the goal of the petition. I doubt we could have hoped for more given the time constraints involved.

In less than 1 week, we've had multiple articles written about our efforts and our letter was read to the assembled members of the JC by their President & COO.

Unfortunately, I will be travelling Monday evening, so I won't be able to attend the War Room meeting. I do LOVE the idea of targeting a small track/pool to bet INTO (as opposed to a boycott at this time). This will be seen as a POSITIVE action that will turn some heads, as opposed to the negative overtone of a boycott. I'm not saying that boycotts should be taken off the table, only that they shouldn't necessarily be the next step.

Mike: Congratulations to you on the cover letter and to betovernet for getting the jockey club to pay attention to our concerns. I still am skeptical about anything doing us a LOT of good that Bob Evans was involved with, but hopefully he will be exposed soon for his constant ineptness. As for the procott (even though I won't be available on Wednesday) I agree that positive action is the way to go! I do not think boycotting as a group is in our best interests (especially since I've been in the business 30 years and don't feel comfortable boycotting or being associated with that type of movement), but that's not to say that quietly shutting our wallets when it comes to Woodbine as a group isn't a good thing. I can certainly assure everyone on this forum that I will never wager one dime on Woodbine again, (as what they did to Ian was despicable) and that I haven't wagered a dollar (even though I'm an everyday player) on CDSN or Magna since the tracknet impasse...........

Continued momentum!

Boomer

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

Rook,

They should/will be. I didn't know;that's an Amtote pool definition I will have fixed.

Ian

Thanks Ian. While you are talking to them about this, it would also be great if you could get the minimum supers for all of the Canadian tracks set at 20 cents instead of the current $1. This is a competitive advantage that WEG should not have over your company.

[Premier Turf Club]

Originally Posted by Rook

Thanks Ian. While you are talking to them about this, it would also be great if you could get the minimum supers for all of the Canadian tracks set at 20 cents instead of the current $1. This is a competitive advantage that WEG should not have over your company.

Rook, I will check but if I recall we asked Amtote about the 20 cent supers and was told they are only available in Canada. I believe it was a CPMA rule but I will ask again.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by Premier Turf Club

Rook, I will check but if I recall we asked Amtote about the 20 cent supers and was told they are only available in Canada. I believe it was a CPMA rule but I will ask again.

Unless you hear it directly from CPMA, don't take anybody's word on it: You know how honest Woodbine is in talking about legalities and Amtote might be under that impression after discussions with them. If it is a CPMA rule, then ask them to get it changed because it obviously makes no sense.

[rrbauer]

What is positive about betting a track with high levels of takeout? Especially a circuit that you don't know anything about?

If you think the suits at the JC and racetracks in general are going to embrace horseplayers and include them in the track owners/horse owners/regulation makers "partnership" because horseplayers are "nice" to them, then is what they will be doing.

"Nice" doesn't work with those people. Pinching their pocketbooks does. I'm done betting until Keeneland opens in October. If PTC carries them I'll open an account with them....if not then I have two other accounts that I can bet Keeneland with (when I'm not at the track). Keeneland has earned my business by reducing takeout and employing new technology at their racing plant while maintaining high levels of customer service and keeping tradition a part of their product.

Want to do something postive? Save your money and bet it at Keeneland.

[betovernetcapper]

I personally been engaged in a TrackNet boycott since May. It's become ordinary. I wouldn't consider betting at AP or CD anymore than I'd consider using gasoline as toothpaste. But that's just me.
.
There are a lot of things we can do procott-boycott-pass out flyer's on Breeders Cup day in front of Toco Bells (YUM! BRANDS) that inform people of the dangers of eating tainted meat. It's all good. I suggest we explore all options that don't involve Federal prison time.
.
If any-ones free tonight drop by the war room at around MNR 1st race post time to begin a game plan.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by rrbauer

What is positive about betting a track with high levels of takeout? Especially a circuit that you don't know anything about?....

Want to do something postive? Save your money and bet it at Keeneland.

I agree that high takeout tracks without rebate must be avoided but if these tracks are willing to rebate the player 12 to 14%, then the effective takeout rate becomes around 12% and the game becomes beatable.

One of the many reasons Woodbine is on top of my boycott list is because these slime have a 28.3% rate for tris and then deny even a 1% rebate to a huge chunk of their customers.

[betovernetcapper]

Just checked the rates and if you can bet ALB with PTC your getting a much better deal than KEE.

[DanG]

Regardless of the outcome, this is such an encouraging sign to me;

Thanks to Mike [PA], Ian [PTC], Richard [Betovernetcapper] and many other articulate members as the player is learning we may actually have a voice. Let’s try and keep in mind how many incremental changes we have seen this year alone.

• Premier Turf Club
• Players organizing for a common cause.
• Take out being openly discussed by a few in track management.
• The JC voting to ban steroids in race horses.

Sure, there seem to be two equally frustrating moments for every step forward, but a real round of applause for those giving their time on behalf of all of us!!!

(Please forgive me for leaving out the many who are helping and / or miss-identifying anyone. Sometimes I think I have too many horses’ names in my head and I struggle with the internet handles.)

[cj]

Originally Posted by rrbauer

Want to do something postive? Save your money and bet it at Keeneland.

I'll still bet Keeneland, if they fix that ridiculous surface they installed. They went from one extreme to the other, and both suck.

[kenwoodallpromos]

At the same round table, research of fans and horsemen reaction revealed the following, what I believe is a related issue:
"a survey revealed that of 1,250 racing fans, one-third said Thoroughbred racing has “serious integrity issues,” with alleged use of illegal medication first and foremost....
“To be quite candid, the stewards of The Jockey Club think it’s a disgrace that numerous horses in our sport’s most prominent and highly visible races are routinely trained by people who have repeated medication violations,” Phipps said....
Phipps said all industry stakeholders must cooperate.
Horsemen's representatives in attendance at the Round Table acknowledged the perception of cheating in the industry but questioned whether it's rampant."
____________
1/3 of "core bettors" who spend $1 billion in takeout think overall racing is full of cheaters, but the horsemen (owner) do not care until it is what THEY consider "RAMPANT".
With a Dubai winner DQ'ed, drug holding stalls at many stakes races, trainers convicted of felony heroin driving and cars searched for snake venom, the #1 country recording artist's horse dq'ed for milkshaking, at what point does the industry start looking at 10 years in a row of lower on-track betting and no increase in betting off-track since 2003 and start figuring out the better get their act together?
The good news is that with notice taken of the PA petition and acknowledgement of bettors being PO'ed, now is a great time to for the bettor to start pushing the industry to improve in critical areas such as:
Lack of standardization of ADW and takeout rates;
Lack of standardization and quality info from finish cameras, trackus, and chart callers (Equibase);
Lack of standardization of rules and punishments;
Lack of standardization for decent pay and disability $$$ for jockeys;
Pressure on claiming horses due to drugs and overwork;
IMHO racing needs healthy jockeys and horses and tightening of rules and better standardization for reporting of racing performance and for reduction of portions kept of betting monies and breakage.

[Good4Now]

Who is aligned with who?

What are each seeking to gain by aligning the way they do?

What is their frame of reference ?

What is their time frame?

Congratulations to those who got the PLAYERS recognition!

I put this out because I do not KNOW. I am under the impression that the Thoroughbred Owners of California has a position of "player representative" on one of their comitees. Can we contact them?

Are there other folks we should contact OR invite them to join our discussion?

[ceejay]

One point I'll make-- I don't know if I'll make the war room, we should be sure to schedule enough lead time to appropriately publicize the next move.

We should probably form some kind of steering comittee also.

[betovernetcapper]

Originally Posted by ceejay

One point I'll make-- I don't know if I'll make the war room, we should be sure to schedule enough lead time to appropriately publisize the next move.

We should probably form some kind of steering comittee also.

YES