Liberal Corner

[davew]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

The vast majority of people don't want. 78% of US adults don't own a gun.

Just because someone does not own, does not mean does not want. Maybe the government could give away phones, food, and guns.

[Clocker]

An article at PJ Media talks about the days back in the Dark Ages (30 years ago) when high schools actually had rifle ranges and kids brought their guns to school on the bus. My high school didn't have one, but the university I attended had a rifle range under the stadium grandstands. I wonder if it is still there.

The author points out that there were no school shootings back then. And since the guns haven't changed, something else must have. (He doesn't mention the NRA, but it was also around back then, just like now.)

The high school kids who shot rifles in school in 1985 were taught right and wrong. They were taught what to do with their rifle in school, and what not to do. If they got out of line, all the other students and the coach would have come down on them hard. There were no safe spaces, and that was a good thing.

Culture is a powerful force for good. When good behavior is normalized and deviant destructive behavior is ostracized, shamed, and marginalized, you get more good behavior.

Considering evil in this debate makes some of you uncomfortable, but evil bathes all of these shootings. I am reminded of Justice Antonin Scalia’s spectacularly funny and profound interview in 2013 when he toyed with a New Yorker reporter about evil. “You travel in circles that are so, so removed from mainstream America that you are appalled that anybody would believe in the Devil!”, he chortled.

Thirty years ago, kids who brought their rifles to the high school shooting range didn’t wonder about evil and cultural decay. They simply lived in a time in America when right and wrong was more starkly defined, where expectations about behavior were clear, and wickedness hadn’t been normalized.

The idea that guns caused the carnage we have faced is so intellectually bankrupt that it is isn’t worth discussing. Remembering where we were as a nation just 30 years ago makes it even more so. It’s time to ask what changed.

https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/...hing-happened/

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

The author points out that there were no school shootings back then. And since the guns haven't changed, something else must have. (He doesn't mention the NRA, but it was also around back then, just like now.)

The NRA of the 60s and 70s (which is when I assume you're talking about) has little resemblance to the NRA of today. Other than what's mentioned in this video, the NRA of those days didn't have tens of millions of dollars in support pouring into it from gun manufacturers.

http://theweek.com/articles/597752/h...cam-gun-owners

YouTube (Short URL)

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

The NRA of the 60s and 70s (which is when I assume you're talking about) has little resemblance to the NRA of today. Other than what's mentioned in this video, the NRA of those days didn't have tens of millions of dollars in support pouring into it from gun manufacturers.

http://theweek.com/articles/597752/h...cam-gun-owners

https://youtu.be/7460CZcGJRY

You've missed the point of what Clocker was making. It's not the Guns or the NRA. It's the LACK of that is to blame.

LACK of Common Sense
LACK of Moral Character
LACK of Personal Responsibly
LACK of Values
LACK of Civil Discourse

Just to name a few...

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

The NRA of the 60s and 70s (which is when I assume you're talking about) has little resemblance to the NRA of today. Other than what's mentioned in this video, the NRA of those days didn't have tens of millions of dollars in support pouring into it from gun manufacturers.

The NRA has changed its tactics and its funding in line with the changes in opposition to it and with increased attempts to regulate guns.

And I am shocked, shocked to learn that gun manufacturers are spending money to promote gun sales. The bastages!

None of which addresses the point of the article: society has changed, and not for the better. And there is no evidence that the NRA is responsible for the changes.

To repeat Adams,

The idea that guns caused the carnage we have faced is so intellectually bankrupt that it isn’t worth discussing.

[woodtoo]

Update: the NRA does not promote gun violence or school shootings.

[davew]

Originally Posted by woodtoo

Update: the NRA does not promote gun violence or school shootings.

the dims are the ones that keep talking about it, and crying on television shows about it...

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by davew

the dims are the ones that keep talking about it, and crying on television shows about it...

That's easier than addressing the real problem. And part of the big picture problem is the strong opposition of the left to using any information about mental health problems to restrict gun ownership for people with such problems. It remains to be seen if that issue is relevant to the Florida shooting.

And speaking of libs and guns and mental health, Stephen King posted that the dead in Florida were killed with an MS-13.

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

That's easier than addressing the real problem. And part of the big picture problem is the strong opposition of the left to using any information about mental health problems to restrict gun ownership for people with such problems.

Please elaborate on this statement. Illustrate how the left is opposed to restricting gun ownership for people with mental illness.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

Illustrate how the left is opposed to restricting gun ownership for people with mental illness.

I didn't say the left is opposed to restricting gun ownership for people with mental illness. I said they were opposed to releasing mental health information.

[davew]

fellow libs may want to sign the petition to impeach Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-imp...130002857.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by davew

fellow libs may want to sign the petition to impeach Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-imp...130002857.html

"There will be increasing evidence and increasing urgency with the American people to get this guy out of office as people realize we really can't survive him,"

These kind of guys are the best kind of crazy...

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I didn't say the left is opposed to restricting gun ownership for people with mental illness. I said they were opposed to releasing mental health information.

Bingo. To keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, liberals seem to have difficulty balancing privacy with the required sharing of information.

And on a related note, you have to go to non-mainstream sources to find anything at all about the most relevant question: if the perp was/is mentally ill, what meds are involved? Lots of data indicate the problems with young people being given SSRIs and not being kept under watch.

http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ign...hool-shooting/

Many school shootings involve meds, and reactions to misuse or going off them. We might ask ourselves what's changed in the last 30 years for school shootings to become more common? Sure, video games and cultural shifts can explain some of it, but all? But do we ever hear any calls in the media to go after Big Pharma? The doctors? No. Only when Michael Jackson or Prince OD then we ask for the doctor to be strung up....

Yet the predictable response from the press is always the same – not only a total lack of curiosity, but disdain for any who ask the question, as though connecting psychiatric meds to mass shootings is pursuing a “conspiracy theory.”
...
Fact: A disturbing number of perpetrators of school shootings and similar mass murders in our modern era were either on – or just recently coming off of – psychiatric medications. A few of the most high-profile examples, out of many others, include:

Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox – like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of antidepressant drug called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999 during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves. Luvox manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox – that’s one in 25 – developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.

Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, California, in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban “semiautomatic assault weapons” in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.

Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Oregon, and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.

In Paducah, Kentucky, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school’s lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.

In 2005, 16-year-old Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota’s Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.

In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Kentucky, killing nine. Prozac-maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.

Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danysh’s description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: “I didn’t realize I did it until after it was done,” Danysh said. “This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun.”

And if any of you follow Karl Denninger, he penned another infamous rant today:

http://market-ticker.org/cgi-ticker/...ww?post=232986

Psychotropic medication, specifically in this case SSRIs, are dangerous in those under the age of 25 in that there is a known small but real risk of them potentiating a "Rage Monster" style attack when given to people in this age group. This risk is specifically noted in the prescribing information (it notes the possibility of potentiating a mixed/manic state with aggression if given to someone who is both under 25 and bipolar) but we still hand this crap out to kids and near-kids and there appears to be no good way to know who will have that sort of reaction to consuming them in advance.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by davew

fellow libs may want to sign the petition to impeach Trump

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-imp...130002857.html

"He has lowered the standards for Americans. I mean, just as a glaring example, no other American president used a four-letter word, bathroom language, in meetings," Steyer said of Trump.

OMG!!!

Where do I sign?

I don't know how Eisenhower escaped impeachment.

The more religious members of Eisenhower’s cabinet asked that he begin its meetings with a prayer. Ultimately the cabinet decided to do so in silence. Once when Ike launched straight into a meeting, he was slipped a note, and then blurted out, "Oh, goddammit, we forgot the silent prayer."

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by Clocker

OMG!!!

Where do I sign?

.

Go ahead and sign it... join the 4.7 mil who receive email offers for Coco and Pink Puddy Hats.