Fairgrounds turf course "about" distances

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Anyone know the exact amount of furlongs or total feet is for the *about 7.5 furlongs on the Fairgrounds turf course? Thanks!

[cj]

I don't, but I've always been amazed all the turf races at the Fair Grounds are about distances.

[deelo]

Fair Grounds doesn't keep exact distances for Turf unfortunately.

[JohnGalt1]

Most of the turf races at Gulfstream are "about" distances.

I never use drf variants for turf races, except at FG and GP. Or good, yielding, or soft turf.

Does anyone know if any other turf courses have unlabeled about distances?

I know for example the CBY and AP run about distance turf races, but do they also use different settings for the rails?

At other tracks I mostly ignore about distances where I can.

[cj]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

Most of the turf races at Gulfstream are "about" distances.

I never use drf variants for turf races, except at FG and GP. Or good, yielding, or soft turf.

Does anyone know if any other turf courses have unlabeled about distances?

I know for example the CBY and AP run about distance turf races, but do they also use different settings for the rails?

At other tracks I mostly ignore about distances where I can.

How do you figure most of the Gulfstream distances are about? With Trakus, the measure the distance from the finish the exact amount and list the time from that point. The rest is considered run up.

[elhelmete]

*about distances....
rail settings...
run up distances....

we still can't measure a freakin oval?

[Tom]

Just wait until they come out with about payoffs!

[WoxFan]

Originally Posted by Tom

Just wait until they come out with about payoffs!

With breakage, everyone already does about payoffs.

[JohnGalt1]

Originally Posted by cj

How do you figure most of the Gulfstream distances are about? With Trakus, the measure the distance from the finish the exact amount and list the time from that point. The rest is considered run up.

As we all know, turf race times are more subjective than objective for many reasons.

To answer your question, for Gulfstream, I rely on the drf variant because they run so many turf races, at so many distances.

In the 2105 Cynthia par book, the average firm turf variant is 19. If I see a variant lower than that, that means the rails were normal. When I see a variant of say 25, I deduct 6 from the final time. Higher variants mean the rails were probably set further out. Using the variant this way also takes into account run up distances.

I also do this when the track was off. Canterbury, my home track's firm turf variant is 10. If a horse has a only one turf race at a mile where it ran well on a yielding course, but the horse's adjusted final time was 1:39 and the variant was 25, I'll rate it at 1:36 and compare to it's competition.

Does this mean I have solved the holy grail of turf race pace ratings--probably not.

I have been using the drf variants for off turf courses for years, and usually only do this if no good firm races to rate.

I've only used the variant for GP races for the last two years, and since I've been doing this, I have done better when rating horses off GP races.

[cj]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

As we all know, turf race times are more subjective than objective for many reasons.

To answer your question, for Gulfstream, I rely on the drf variant because they run so many turf races, at so many distances.

In the 2105 Cynthia par book, the average firm turf variant is 19. If I see a variant lower than that, that means the rails were normal. When I see a variant of say 25, I deduct 6 from the final time. Higher variants mean the rails were probably set further out. Using the variant this way also takes into account run up distances.

I also do this when the track was off. Canterbury, my home track's firm turf variant is 10. If a horse has a only one turf race at a mile where it ran well on a yielding course, but the horse's adjusted final time was 1:39 and the variant was 25, I'll rate it at 1:36 and compare to it's competition.

Does this mean I have solved the holy grail of turf race pace ratings--probably not.

I have been using the drf variants for off turf courses for years, and usually only do this if no good firm races to rate.

I've only used the variant for GP races for the last two years, and since I've been doing this, I have done better when rating horses off GP races.

That is all well and good, and I hope you do great.

But it has nothing to do with the races being "about" distances. That simply isn't true any longer. Unless the starting gate is put in the wrong place like it was for the Lady Shipman race earlier this year, the times given are for the exact distance listed. There are no more about distances (except in the case of human error) at Gulfstream regardless of rail position.

[JohnGalt1]

thanks for responding.

But doesn't the rail being set 180 feet out create wider turns, and thus slower times resulting in higher variants?

I dug out some GP PP's.

3/26/16 race 1

Meuser ran 3/13 in a 1 1/16 where the winner's time was 1:40.4 with a variant of 15. On 9/26 the winner win in 1:43.1 with a variant of 26. Both were firm courses. I don't know the fun ups or rail setting for the races.

Battleback Bob ran 1 1/8, where the winner won in 1:51.3 on a firm course with a 34 variant.

Hudson Miracle ran in a 1 1/8 where the winner won in 1:47.2 with a 13 variant.

Luckily most horses have multiple turf races to use.

[cj]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1

thanks for responding.

But doesn't the rail being set 180 feet out create wider turns, and thus slower times resulting in higher variants?

I dug out some GP PP's.

3/26/16 race 1

Meuser ran 3/13 in a 1 1/16 where the winner's time was 1:40.4 with a variant of 15. On 9/26 the winner win in 1:43.1 with a variant of 26. Both were firm courses. I don't know the fun ups or rail setting for the races.

Battleback Bob ran 1 1/8, where the winner won in 1:51.3 on a firm course with a 34 variant.

Hudson Miracle ran in a 1 1/8 where the winner won in 1:47.2 with a 13 variant.

Luckily most horses have multiple turf races to use.

Wider sweeping turns should probably help as opposed to tighter turns, but I do agree they are different courses and the variants will be different. I was just commenting that the distances weren't about. I never combine races run at different rail settings when making variants. Guflstream at times run three different settings on the same card, often with differing run ups too.

[deelo]

Forget run-ups and variants and whatever, That goes for any race, any track, and isn't what the question was. Gulfstream does not card their distances "about"...even SA's "about 6.5 downhill" does have an exact distance. (64.5 ft short of 6.5). Fair Grounds doesn't keep exact distance unfortunately...that's where answering this thread should have ended.

[cj]

Originally Posted by deelo

Forget run-ups and variants and whatever, That goes for any race, any track, and isn't what the question was. Gulfstream does not card their distances "about"...even SA's "about 6.5 downhill" does have an exact distance. (64.5 ft short of 6.5). Fair Grounds doesn't keep exact distance unfortunately...that's where answering this thread should have ended.

Sometimes, actually most times, threads veer off onto a different but somewhat related topic. Appreciate the input, but we have moderators for a reason.

[deelo]

Fair enough