No real PROOF of PAST POSTING!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Without going thru all 130 previous posts, didn't Mike Maloney provide some examples of past posting? And outright fraud? Have we forgotten the 2002 Breeders Cup Pic 6?

Having said that, I don't believe it is common. Probably very uncommon. But those who think it has never happened are as wrong as those who think it happens all the time.

And even if NOTHING is wrong that's going on, the perception of the sharp late odds changes does look bad. Maybe if the machines were to lock a full minute before the gates opened it might help. Everyone would have to adjust.

I'm just trying to imagine NFL bettors having a bet ticket and having to wait until the kickoff to know what price they got.

So...you are saying that past-posting does occur, but it's uncommon. The same thing that used to be said about trainers "cheating". And my question is: How "common" does outright thievery have to be before a highly-taxed game such as this can be considered UNBEATABLE?

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

So...you are saying that past-posting does occur, but it's uncommon. The same thing that used to be said about trainers "cheating". And my question is: How "common" does outright thievery have to be before a highly-taxed game such as this can be considered UNBEATABLE?

i have surrendered the start of this year, and i know i have no chance to win picking horses. i am going to play the 2 year old races because i know the CRW has no clue what to do there and for the after the bell bettors they are going to have to play the speed, i wind up with good horses that don't break on top and pay more than they should because of the bell bettors. if they are going to beat me they deserve the money.

[cj]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i have surrendered the start of this year, and i know i have no chance to win picking horses. i am going to play the 2 year old races because i know the CRW has no clue what to do there and for the after the bell bettors they are going to have to play the speed, i wind up with good horses that don't break on top and pay more than they should because of the bell bettors. if they are going to beat me they deserve the money.

Good luck! I have 433 maiden races for 2yos in my database (6f or less), and the winner is within 1/5 of a second of the leader after a 1/4 mile in 68% of them.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Good luck! I have 433 maiden races for 2yos in my database (6f or less), and the winner is within 1/5 of a second of the leader after a 1/4 mile in 68% of them.

Yes...but are these speedsters apparent during the pre-race handicapping process?

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Yes...but are these speedsters apparent during the pre-race handicapping process?

A lot of first timers I'm sure. I'm just saying that hoping you bet talented horses that don't break well is probably not going to work out very well.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

So...you are saying that past-posting does occur, but it's uncommon. The same thing that used to be said about trainers "cheating". And my question is: How "common" does outright thievery have to be before a highly-taxed game such as this can be considered UNBEATABLE?

Needless to say, even very uncommon is too much.

As more options become available, I don't know how racing survives IF it doesn't adjust takeout downward.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Needless to say, even very uncommon is too much.

As more options become available, I don't know how racing survives IF it doesn't adjust takeout downward.

If history is any indication...then the takeout will move UPWARDS in the future. As more betting options become available to gamblers...horse racing will try to squeeze the lemon as dry as it can get.

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Without going thru all 130 previous posts, didn't Mike Maloney provide some examples of past posting?

Yes, he did ... in 2007 ....

[cj]

Originally Posted by toddbowker

Yes, he did ... in 2007 ....

I'll consult the book, but I think he mentioned some as late as 2015 and he gave up the fight for personal reasons not related to horse racing.

I asked in the other thread, but why are we relying on someone to press a button to signal the race has started? There has to be a better way.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by cj

I'll consult the book, but I think he mentioned some as late as 2015 and he gave up the fight for personal reasons not related to horse racing.

I asked in the other thread, but why are we relying on someone to press a button to signal the race has started? There has to be a better way.

There's always a better way.

The announcement in this Blood Horse article came about as a result of two past posting incidents that took place within a 10 day span back in 2009:
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...f-time-display

TRA Adopts Protocol for 'Off Time' Display

If I recall correctly, the first incident took place at Hollywood Park, and the second took place a week or so later at Penn National.

Using the search button, I was able to pull up a link to a thread here at Paceadvantage: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=58066

I think it was shortly after the second incident linked to above that the TRPB was forced to admit all of their previous investigations into past posting were flawed because even though the tote system had a data field to capture a "timestamp" so the investigators could see date/hour/minute/second of when each wager first showed up in the tote system:

They had no way of knowing "true race off time" because the "race off times" they were using for all of their investigations up to that point were based on a timestamp that showed date/hour/minute only --

Flawed because the number of seconds was not being recorded/was missing from the data.

The only thing the investigators were really able to determine with any certainty during the hundreds of so called past posting "investigations" performed prior to the summer of 2009 was whether or not a wager had arrived in the tote system within 60 seconds of when the race went off.

Shortly after that they figured out they needed a better way --

And decided that synching up the timestamps in the track video, tote, and Equibase chart data systems might be easier than dealing with angry horseplayers.


-jp

.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by cj

I'll consult the book, but I think he mentioned some as late as 2015 and he gave up the fight for personal reasons not related to horse racing.

I asked in the other thread, but why are we relying on someone to press a button to signal the race has started? There has to be a better way.

Knowing this game, it will soon be be on the honor system. Just like at the airport when you're checking a bag and they ask you if anyone else has handled your luggage, you'll be asked if you made all your bets before race started. If you answer yes, you can cash your ticket.

[Parson]

Hey caught a small one that drifted up in the 1st @ KEE today. ML 5/2 loading 2/1 and got the morning line back at the end

[cj]

Originally Posted by Parson

Hey caught a small one that drifted up in the 1st @ KEE today. ML 5/2 loading 2/1 and got the morning line back at the end

He paid $6.80, thus 2-1. He could have been 2.4 to 1 all along, no?

[AltonKelsey]

So they did an investigation into past posting without the SECONDS field?

That's ok, but why weren't the folks responsible for that criminally charged with fraud and/or incompetence?

[cj]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

So they did an investigation into past posting without the SECONDS field?

That's ok, but why weren't the folks responsible for that criminally charged with fraud and/or incompetence?

The bad part is most replays show the off time to the second at least. I guess they could argue there is no way to know if the tote clock and the video clock are synced, but you could get it a lot closer than "within a minute".