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Old 04-05-2018, 09:19 PM   #16
MJC922
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I'd gladly bet into a fixed odds line with a 20% takeout vs a 2% takeout not knowing within a tight enough tolerance what my horses will pay. As for the competition, those are your final odds today folks, granted they're accurate long-term but not without error by any means.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:32 AM   #17
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Odd. I see it exactly the other way around.

Seriously.
Care to explain how so? I would think I have the law of averages on my side.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:32 AM   #18
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Care to explain how so? I would think I have the law of averages on my side.
I've got no idea what will actually happen in an individual race but I know that every 50 races or so I will have a profit.

It's kind of like playing roulette or craps... if you are the one who owns the table. There are hot streaks and cold streaks, but at the end of the week the casino will usually be ahead.

I'd expect that any long-term winning player will logically see it my way.


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Old 04-06-2018, 04:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
I've got no idea what will actually happen in an individual race but I know that every 50 races or so I will have a profit.

It's kind of like playing roulette or craps... if you are the one who owns the table. There are hot streaks and cold streaks, but at the end of the week the casino will usually be ahead.

I'd expect that any long-term winning player will logically see it my way.


Dave
The casino will be ahead at the end of the week...but, alas, the long-term winning horseplayer's profits are a tad more inconsistent.
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Old 04-06-2018, 09:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MJC922 View Post
It matters in the sense that fewer horses are going to be over your fair odds if the takeout is huge.

Yes. That's the bottom line.

If I make the fair value on a horse 5/2 and he's 7/2 on the board, I don't
care if the track take is 14% or 30%. It's still a play. The difference is that I am way less likely to get that 7/2 at a 30% take track. The horse will usually go of lower.

There is another thing to consider.

The lower take tracks will tend to attract the smartest money. So the pools should tend to be more efficient as a result (and vice versa). It's at least theoretically possible that with so much less sharp money in the pools at the high take tracks there could be some offsetting extra mistakes that make up for the higher take.
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:17 PM   #21
SG4
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
I've got no idea what will actually happen in an individual race but I know that every 50 races or so I will have a profit.

It's kind of like playing roulette or craps... if you are the one who owns the table. There are hot streaks and cold streaks, but at the end of the week the casino will usually be ahead.

I'd expect that any long-term winning player will logically see it my way.


Dave
If you're a long-term winning player on bets with a consistent takeout rate in the vicinity of 27%, then you are quite the player. As a successful player I may feel that the longer I play & the more bets I place I will be positive in the long-run, but to have any confidence in this I feel the need to be sensitive to takeout rates.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:16 AM   #22
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If you're a long-term winning player on bets with a consistent takeout rate in the vicinity of 27%, then you are quite the player. As a successful player I may feel that the longer I play & the more bets I place I will be positive in the long-run, but to have any confidence in this I feel the need to be sensitive to takeout rates.
Never said that.

However, remember that the higher the takeout, the higher the rebate. I recall some years back when I was getting 23% rebate in the trifecta pool at PEN.

Alas, my rebates are not that good any more.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:48 PM   #23
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Does a tracks take out percentage really matter?

Only if you win.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:27 PM   #24
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I'm interested in what the takeout is for me AFTER the rebate.

Simple example:
Track A has a 15% takeout and a rebate of 3%
Track B has a 20% takeout and a rebate of 10%

If everything else about the two tracks is equal, Track B is a better proposition.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:26 PM   #25
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mens warehouse had a saying, i believe it was them that said,"an educated consumer is our best customer".
That would have been Syms.
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