The DQ (or non-DQ) complaint thread

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Guess they wanted Jose to burn his horse into the rail and snatch up the reins for an acting award.

He kept riding in a dangerous spot. He almost got through.

You don't want to see herding change the results. You don't want to lose a rider or a horse.

Right now the stewards have riders in a position, where they have to herd close finishes. Greshams Law in effect.

if one thing is for sure the stewards sure as heck of made it clear in NYRA that herding is acceptable, even when bumping occurs. There was no bumping here but yea, west coast rider watches the east coast replays, lol

[classhandicapper]

I thought it was unquestionably the correct call.

I can see how someone that bet Elate feels like they didn't get a fair run inside, but Smith was trying to make it tight enough that the horse and/or rider might not go all out, but without fouling. I think he accomplished that perfectly. They barely brushed and Elate never hit the rail.

I'll have to examine the pace better, but it looked like he gave Abel Tasman two different rides. I thought it was a mistake to move so strongly prematurely because the pace was not extremely slow. All he needed to do was stay reasonably close, but he made up for it because the stretch drive was Hall of Fame worthy.

Poor Salty can't get a break.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I thought it was unquestionably the correct call.

I can see how someone that bet Elate feels like they didn't get a fair run inside, but Smith was trying to make it tight enough that the horse and/or rider might not go all out, but without fouling. I think he accomplished that perfectly. They barely brushed and Elate never hit the rail.

I'll have to examine the pace better, but it looked like he gave Abel Tasman two different rides. I thought it was a mistake to move so strongly prematurely because the pace was not extremely slow. All he needed to do was stay reasonably close, but he made up for it because the stretch drive was Hall of Fame worthy.

Poor Salty can't get a break.

I need to review the chart, you wonder if he doesnt make that move and Elate is in front, assuming he has to rally wide, if he ends up catching her on what I think is a very good rail.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I need to review the chart, you wonder if he doesnt make that move and Elate is in front, assuming he has to rally wide, if he ends up catching her on what I think is a very good rail.

I need to review the replays and charts again also.

I guess you could make the case a couple of horses ran better than expected inside, but quite a few horses ran well despite spending significant time outside and some inside horses didn't move up at all.

I have a different definitions for this stuff anyway. To me, the rail is supposed to be an advantage due to saving ground. So unless a lot of inside horses are moving up beyond that geometry advantage, I consider the track honest. When running outside 3 wide doesn't seem to be much of a disadvantage but the rail is not dead either (which is a lot of days at a lot of tracks) to me that's something else.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I need to review the replays and charts again also.

I guess you could make the case a couple of horses ran better than expected inside, but quite a few horses ran well despite spending significant time outside and some inside horses didn't move up at all.

I have a different definitions for this stuff anyway. To me, the rail is supposed to be an advantage due to saving ground. So unless a lot of inside horses are moving up beyond that geometry advantage, I consider the track honest. When running outside 3 wide doesn't seem to be much of a disadvantage but the rail is not dead either (which is a lot of days at a lot of tracks) to me that's something else.

I agree it was not as bad as yesterday, I feel like the riders started catching on and thats why we started seeing much more aggressive riding today, and then you have some racing with real setups.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I thought it was unquestionably the correct call.

I can see how someone that bet Elate feels like they didn't get a fair run inside, but Smith was trying to make it tight enough that the horse and/or rider might not go all out, but without fouling. I think he accomplished that perfectly. They barely brushed and Elate never hit the rail.

I'll have to examine the pace better, but it looked like he gave Abel Tasman two different rides. I thought it was a mistake to move so strongly prematurely because the pace was not extremely slow. All he needed to do was stay reasonably close, but he made up for it because the stretch drive was Hall of Fame worthy.

Poor Salty can't get a break.

Since you thought it was the correct call, what would have warranted a DQ in your opinion?

Had Ortiz actually gone over the rail and got seriously hurt would that have been enough? Because another few inches and that's what happens. Smith did everything but put him over the rail.

Eventually it's going to happen and I hope we don't get a lot of "prayers for the fallen rider" posts from people who have been okay with this reckless, dangerous riding in the past.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

if one thing is for sure the stewards sure as heck of made it clear in NYRA that herding is acceptable, even when bumping occurs. There was no bumping here but yea, west coast rider watches the east coast replays, lol

West coast rider you say? How about this, Smith is an all-world at any track money-rider, period. How many thousands of mounts and wins has Mike Smith had in his career at NYRA tracks? You are talking about HOF'er Mike Smith, aren't you??...LOL..

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

West coast rider you say? How about this, Smith is an all-world at any track money-rider, period. How many thousands of mounts and wins has Mike Smith had in his career at NYRA tracks? You are talking about HOF'er Mike Smith, aren't you??...LOL..

Randall, he knows all about Mike Smith. Probably better than anyone here. I think his comment was more talking about how Smith knew what he could get away with in NY.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

Randall, he knows all about Mike Smith. Probably better than anyone here. I think his comment was more talking about how Smith knew what he could get away with in NY.

I'll take your word for it.....My bad.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

West coast rider you say? How about this, Smith is an all-world at any track money-rider, period. How many thousands of mounts and wins has Mike Smith had in his career at NYRA tracks? You are talking about HOF'er Mike Smith, aren't you??...LOL..

Yea was making a joke...more about how herding is so allowed in NY. Maybe its always been that way, not sure.

In socal PVAL was doing that crap for a while, led to some fistacuffs (Nakatani, Kent D, come to mind).

I understand coming closer to a horse, that was dangerously close to making contact today. I would have preferred a DQ for today, Lady Eli, etc....but its kinda an unwritten rule that its allowed on that circuit.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I thought it was the wrong call...Smith came in 3 paths in the stretch to jam Jose on the rail...if there was a brush, then a DQ is in order....from the head-on shot, it looked like it was enough to make that call....Just My Humble Opinion.

[thespaah]

That was not anything but good race riding/ There is no rule written or unwritten that states the leader must "make a hole".
There was np bumping or interference. Not that I could see.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I thought it was the wrong call...Smith came in 3 paths in the stretch to jam Jose on the rail...if there was a brush, then a DQ is in order....from the head-on shot, it looked like it was enough to make that call....Just My Humble Opinion.

I assume u thought Lady Eli should have come down then? There definitely was worse contact and chain reaction contact in that race.

[Dahoss9698]

Originally Posted by thespaah

That was not anything but good race riding/ There is no rule written or unwritten that states the leader must "make a hole".
There was np bumping or interference. Not that I could see.

But there was a hole. Elate was occupying it. The horse was in a spot and then got herded to a few inches from the rail.

I'll ask the same question I asked earlier. In this case is the only thing warranting a DQ Ortiz going over the rail?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Dahoss9698

But there was a hole. Elate was occupying it. The horse was in a spot and then got herded to a few inches from the rail.

I'll ask the same question I asked earlier. In this case is the only thing warranting a DQ Ortiz going over the rail?

In addition to that if Oritiz stood up and acted a little he gets put up. The call promotes acting in situations like that.