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Old 08-27-2020, 09:13 PM   #31
mikesal57
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Originally Posted by Appy View Post
I enjoy checking out different software programs, although if they're real expensive that doesn't qualify for a "check it out" thing.
What pps can you use with HSH, and can you create custom filters to use with the database?
DATA PLAN required to use program @ $140+ per month...

PP's look like this....running lines and added pace figures after it...

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Old 08-27-2020, 09:46 PM   #32
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140+? You mean $138. Don't know where you got the "+" from.
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Old 08-27-2020, 09:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
140+? You mean $138. Don't know where you got the "+" from.
Thxs...I thought it was around there

Others charge $119
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Old 08-27-2020, 09:59 PM   #34
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Just dont let all that FUN ruin your retirement fund....

Did you find those old videos?
Not a Chance, I have a wife destined to fulfill that particular purpose
So many Videos, just kind of viewing as I run across them
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:41 PM   #35
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140+? You mean $138. Don't know where you got the "+" from.
The "+" is that its raised $2 each year in JULY

This year I guess the "guilt" forced him to not raise it.....
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:45 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mikesal57 View Post
DATA PLAN required to use program @ $140+ per month...

PP's look like this....running lines and added pace figures after it...
Pretty basic looking PP's WOW!
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Speed Figure View Post
Pretty basic looking PP's WOW!
Yep.....no workouts or jockey listings either.....thats why I needed PP's to go along with this...

I asked if an up-grade could be made...

But

I got the same answer to almost every request......It will cost me.....$$$$


Its amazing , everything was more money...

But now with HTR , Ken listens and sees if its applicable without a blink and no cost ....
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:27 PM   #38
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Pretty basic looking PP's WOW!
There are plenty of places to get PPs.

HSH users rarely use or need PPs. The goal is to get away from the "story handicapping" approach that is not verifiable via data.

The concept is to build systems that are either automatic or semi-automatic.



Quote:
Salony: Yep.....no workouts or jockey listings either.....thats why I needed PP's to go along with this...
Not true. The important jockey factors are directly accessible to be used in your own custom reports or handicapping objects.


Quote:
I asked if an up-grade could be made...
But
I got the same answer to almost every request......It will cost me.....$$$$
That's because you always asked for stuff that was difficult and only you wanted.

If you're the only one that wants it that is called, "Custom Programming."
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:41 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
There are plenty of places to get PPs.

HSH users rarely use or need PPs. The goal is to get away from the "story handicapping" approach that is not verifiable via data.

The concept is to build systems that are either automatic or semi-automatic.

Not everyone thinks like you.
I wanna know if I'm betting that horse that has good numbers all the time but is 0 for 22.
I wanna see if the trainers intention is good or bad for his horse in this race..
numbers cant tell you that




Not true. The important jockey factors are directly accessible to be used in your own custom reports or handicapping objects.
Jockey and trainer info needs improvement...those were your words many months ago.



That's because you always asked for stuff that was difficult and only you wanted.

If you're the only one that wants it that is called, "Custom Programming."
That was your answer to anyone that asked for something.
Your program needed a face lift for years to get rid of stuff that didnt work or you passed on because it was old....
Instead of being on Social Media all day you should devote time to fixing and advancing your software like all the other developers do.
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by kdavis7837 View Post
Ha, thought I saw something like that but wasnt quit sure what I was looking at, a couple of times horses in the 100's (using raw) when others in low 90's in F1 and EP, seem to dominate pretty easily, something for me to keep track of...LOL, Been a couple of weeks, still having fun but haven't figured out a process or any type of consistency that works for me, what I like about FP is it works on all race types
thanks 46zilzal
It takes a LONG time to be comfortable...Just keep good records of what works for you and patterns will be apparent...

Try it at several tracks...I find that in a quick survey when three analysts: PSR, Magic, and Bet z agree, your chances increase dramatically.

IT is FAR better on the main that on the turf to the point that I don't play turf any longer
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:55 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal View Post
It takes a LONG time to be comfortable...Just keep good records of what works for you and patterns will be apparent...

Try it at several tracks...I find that in a quick survey when three analysts: PSR, Magic, and Bet z agree, your chances increase dramatically.

IT is FAR better on the main that on the turf to the point that I don't play turf any longer
magic and bet Z is not used anymore...its old stuff!!!

unless you want to start showing the newbies
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:42 AM   #42
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Getting Tiresome Michael

Not everyone thinks like you.
That would be precisely right.

Quote:
I wanna know if I'm betting that horse that has good numbers all the time but is 0 for 22.
I wanna see if the trainers intention is good or bad for his horse in this race..
numbers cant tell you that

And yet, our people do it all the time.
The trainer stats are killer.

Who has stats like...
How the trainer does with horses ranked like today's for speed rating in the last race, or best of last 2, or 2nd best ever, etc?


Jockey and trainer info needs improvement...those were your words many months ago.
Despite the TStats being the best available, they DO need improvement. But not in a 22-year old program. Instead these improvements go in the new program I am developing.

The program that HSH downloaders get for absolutely zero.

And the jockey stats are too basic. They need to be expanded by a full magnitude.

If you're the only one that wants it that is called, "Custom Programming."
That was your answer to anyone that asked for something.
How would you know what EVERYONE asks for?
Sure, I get it. You did lots of unionizing behind the scenes. It is your style. Of course, the people you reached out to unionize generally report back to me.


Quote:
Your program needed a face lift for years to get rid of stuff that didnt work or you passed on because it was old....
Instead of being on Social Media all day you should devote time to fixing and advancing your software like all the other developers do.
Yep. It really does need a face lift.
But AS-IS, it is far more powerful than anything else out there.
  • You can use IV Tables.
  • You can use Objects (i.e. ANY 6 factors weighted together)
  • Monte Carlo simulation
  • A couple of types of AI
In fact, you can actually MIX these methods together in a single race!
You can even build "conditional" IV Tables that only fire if a horse has a specific set of conditions. (i.e. more than 5 early speed points or ranks in the top 2 for speed rating in the last race.)
Heck, you can write your own custom reports and tag each column with a weight that sums all the columns to a percentage.

It allows you to control how your own Artificial Morning Line is created.

It manages your day by post time.

It tracks your bets.
Heck, it tracks the horses you DON'T bet and allows you to save those and figure out which of almost 4,000 factors are beating you, or how you could improve your contender process.

You can look at a subset of horses such as the ones that went to the front and determine what pointed to winners or losers.

It also allows you to create an "object" that predicts who will likely go to the front, and then study those horses to determine which factors are likely to get those horses into the winner's circle.

It allows you to isolate on top jockeys (according to the standings) and tell you what factors go with a top (or bottom) jockey winning. Same with trainers.
BTW, trainers are broken down by "circuit," because some trainers have great numbers at small tracks and crappy numbers at big tracks. (Jerry Hollendorfer at GG was a perfect example. He was a near-40% trainer in NoCal and a 13% trainer in SoCal.)
It runs automatic IV demographics so you can tell how your bets (or contenders or not bets) are doing by day-of-week, month-of-year, track, surface, distance, age, sex, field size, track cond, ES pressure and a bunch more.

It allows you to create automatic betting systems for win-place-show based upon things like field size, odds (or projected odds), contender vs non-contender, etc. Allows you to dutch, partial dutch, etc.

It allows you to filter the races on today's cards (across multiple tracks) to tag all the races you are interested in betting (or at least handicapping). You can even run multiple filters against the day with a single click. Really simple examples:
** Claiming races, ALW, HCP, skip maidens, or turf
** Maiden races with 0-3 FTS (or 4, or 7)
** Field size >4 (or 7, whatever)
** races with a certain amount of pace pressure
Just to name a few
You can EASILY grab "races like this one" (using your definition) and analyze Exacta tickets using A-B-C-D-E combinations. (Your definition of each group based upon odds.)
This allows you to instantly see that (say) D-E combinations in "races like this one" are really bad bets.
We have a thing called "Collective Speed." Simple, really. Take all the pacelines for each horse in the race and toss them into a pot. Then you sort them.

I recall a BC race back in the '90s. The issue was Bertrando vs Lure.

If you looked at the last 10 races for each horse, what you saw was that the top NINE speed ratings in the race belonged to Lure. #10 was Bertrando. #11 was Lure.

Thus, in order for Bertrando to win, Lure had to run his WORST speed rating in the last 10 and Bertrando had to run his best.

Lure paid $5.80 as I recall.
We locate races in the database through the use of a "race filter." Then we use the races found to measure/study factors (that we've chosen) to produce "good handicapping objects."

We even have the ability to do this "dynamically (i.e. on-the-fly) for each race! Thus, you open a race and the software will build a custom set of objects to handicap this race.

Oh, and it does this with a single button click.
Okay. So, as much as the software needs a face lift, it is pretty difficult to let go of. HSH has still got a few more years in her.

Oh, wait... almost forgot.
You can still select pacelines.
Or, use one of the built in paceline selection systems. Or create your own automatic paceline system.
There is a form cycle analyzer that produces what Dick Schmidt liked to call, "Those Sheet-Like Things." It will give you a look at form in a graphical format in like 4 seconds.

For many of us, Pace is still a huge part of the game. We do pace modeling without ever selecting a paceline.

HSH also tells you when a horse is over bet.
In fact, in today's World of Whales, where almost 75% of all winners will be bet down, we even predict which horses are LIKELY to be those horses.
Ok, I really am going to stop here.

So, Mike - You are right. HSH is just not a good program for you.

Sorry it did not fit your needs.

Dave
PS: For anyone who took the time to actually read all of this, I've knocked the price of HSH down to $597. That's $1,000 off!

I'll leave that price for a FEW DAYS.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:14 AM   #43
mikesal57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
Not everyone thinks like you.
That would be precisely right.


numbers cant tell you that

And yet, our people do it all the time.
The trainer stats are killer.

Who has stats like...
How the trainer does with horses ranked like today's for speed rating in the last race, or best of last 2, or 2nd best ever, etc?


Jockey and trainer info needs improvement...those were your words many months ago.
Despite the TStats being the best available, they DO need improvement. But not in a 22-year old program. Instead these improvements go in the new program I am developing.

The program that HSH downloaders get for absolutely zero.

And the jockey stats are too basic. They need to be expanded by a full magnitude.

If you're the only one that wants it that is called, "Custom Programming."
That was your answer to anyone that asked for something.
How would you know what EVERYONE asks for?
Sure, I get it. You did lots of unionizing behind the scenes. It is your style. Of course, the people you reached out to unionize generally report back to me.




Yep. It really does need a face lift.
But AS-IS, it is far more powerful than anything else out there.
  • You can use IV Tables.
  • You can use Objects (i.e. ANY 6 factors weighted together)
  • Monte Carlo simulation
  • A couple of types of AI
In fact, you can actually MIX these methods together in a single race!
You can even build "conditional" IV Tables that only fire if a horse has a specific set of conditions. (i.e. more than 5 early speed points or ranks in the top 2 for speed rating in the last race.)
Heck, you can write your own custom reports and tag each column with a weight that sums all the columns to a percentage.

It allows you to control how your own Artificial Morning Line is created.

It manages your day by post time.

It tracks your bets.
Heck, it tracks the horses you DON'T bet and allows you to save those and figure out which of almost 4,000 factors are beating you, or how you could improve your contender process.

You can look at a subset of horses such as the ones that went to the front and determine what pointed to winners or losers.

It also allows you to create an "object" that predicts who will likely go to the front, and then study those horses to determine which factors are likely to get those horses into the winner's circle.

It allows you to isolate on top jockeys (according to the standings) and tell you what factors go with a top (or bottom) jockey winning. Same with trainers.
BTW, trainers are broken down by "circuit," because some trainers have great numbers at small tracks and crappy numbers at big tracks. (Jerry Hollendorfer at GG was a perfect example. He was a near-40% trainer in NoCal and a 13% trainer in SoCal.)
It runs automatic IV demographics so you can tell how your bets (or contenders or not bets) are doing by day-of-week, month-of-year, track, surface, distance, age, sex, field size, track cond, ES pressure and a bunch more.

It allows you to create automatic betting systems for win-place-show based upon things like field size, odds (or projected odds), contender vs non-contender, etc. Allows you to dutch, partial dutch, etc.

It allows you to filter the races on today's cards (across multiple tracks) to tag all the races you are interested in betting (or at least handicapping). You can even run multiple filters against the day with a single click. Really simple examples:
** Claiming races, ALW, HCP, skip maidens, or turf
** Maiden races with 0-3 FTS (or 4, or 7)
** Field size >4 (or 7, whatever)
** races with a certain amount of pace pressure
Just to name a few
You can EASILY grab "races like this one" (using your definition) and analyze Exacta tickets using A-B-C-D-E combinations. (Your definition of each group based upon odds.)
This allows you to instantly see that (say) D-E combinations in "races like this one" are really bad bets.
We have a thing called "Collective Speed." Simple, really. Take all the pacelines for each horse in the race and toss them into a pot. Then you sort them.

I recall a BC race back in the '90s. The issue was Bertrando vs Lure.

If you looked at the last 10 races for each horse, what you saw was that the top NINE speed ratings in the race belonged to Lure. #10 was Bertrando. #11 was Lure.

Thus, in order for Bertrando to win, Lure had to run his WORST speed rating in the last 10 and Bertrando had to run his best.

Lure paid $5.80 as I recall.
We locate races in the database through the use of a "race filter." Then we use the races found to measure/study factors (that we've chosen) to produce "good handicapping objects."

We even have the ability to do this "dynamically (i.e. on-the-fly) for each race! Thus, you open a race and the software will build a custom set of objects to handicap this race.

Oh, and it does this with a single button click.
Okay. So, as much as the software needs a face lift, it is pretty difficult to let go of. HSH has still got a few more years in her.

Oh, wait... almost forgot.
You can still select pacelines.
Or, use one of the built in paceline selection systems. Or create your own automatic paceline system.
There is a form cycle analyzer that produces what Dick Schmidt liked to call, "Those Sheet-Like Things." It will give you a look at form in a graphical format in like 4 seconds.

For many of us, Pace is still a huge part of the game. We do pace modeling without ever selecting a paceline.

HSH also tells you when a horse is over bet.
In fact, in today's World of Whales, where almost 75% of all winners will be bet down, we even predict which horses are LIKELY to be those horses.
Ok, I really am going to stop here.

So, Mike - You are right. HSH is just not a good program for you.

Sorry it did not fit your needs.

Dave
PS: For anyone who took the time to actually read all of this, I've knocked the price of HSH down to $597. That's $1,000 off!

I'll leave that price for a FEW DAYS.
Glad you stuck your promo in there...LOL

You stated quite a few concepts here...
But how many of your subscribers actually know this...
I'll tell you ...not many if any !!
For the 18 months there it was all paid Seminars you were promoting...
which was based on un-tested theories....
New Cap...Tiers....Shark......all worthless to us but a payday for you.
I proved that your 4000+ factors was knocked down to under 100 with the research I did....but you failed to see it as usual...
20 year old factors dont work anymore...
The best are ML...Bris prime....best 2 of last 3....best 3 of 4.....this is stuff thats in $50 programs.....which I mentioned a few time but as always
you believe that your program is the best out there...
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by mikesal57 View Post
Glad you stuck your promo in there...LOL

You stated quite a few concepts here...
But how many of your subscribers actually know this...
I'll tell you ...not many if any !!
For the 18 months there it was all paid Seminars you were promoting...
which was based on un-tested theories....
New Cap...Tiers....Shark......all worthless to us but a payday for you.
I proved that your 4000+ factors was knocked down to under 100 with the research I did....but you failed to see it as usual...
20 year old factors dont work anymore...
The best are ML...Bris prime....best 2 of last 3....best 3 of 4.....this is stuff thats in $50 programs.....which I mentioned a few time but as always
you believe that your program is the best out there...
My handicapping beliefs are clearly different than yours.

My experience indicates that the factors you mentioned correlate way too highly with the tote board to produce profit.

My experience also tells me that using large segments of data just plays into the hands of the whales. Since they are better at analyzing data than I am (and possibly even you), it will not lead to profit.


but you failed to see it as usual...
Yes, I really am not very astute. Thank you for pointing this flaw in my personality out to me.

20 year old factors dont work anymore...
Yes, especially when there are so many NEW factors.

Your responses show that you are on an agenda-based mission.

Conversing with you has reached a point of diminishing returns.

Why don't you give it a rest and move on?
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:22 AM   #45
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I consider this matter now closed between Mike & Dave. Both have been allowed ample opportunity to state their opinions on this matter.

Do not test me further Mike.
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