Cubs winning IN SPITE of Joe Maddon...

[thaskalos]

I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation".

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm.

[ReplayRandall]

This might be it:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ghlight=maddon

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation".

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm.

In Maddon's defense, Davis told him he was only good for 1 inning, had already warmed up once, and if they could escape the 9th, they would still have to face Turner in the 10th.

But I agree with you--the Cubs had to get to the 10th or nothing else mattered. On the TBS postgame, Gary Sheffield and Pedro Martinez agreed with that, while Jimmy Rollins agreed with the path Maddon opted for.

[NorCalGreg]

As soon as I read the thread's title, I remembered the thread from last year. Crow must be a delicacy in Greece.

[FakeNameChanged]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

In Maddon's defense, Davis told him he was only good for 1 inning, had already warmed up once, and if they could escape the 9th, they would still have to face Turner in the 10th.

But I agree with you--the Cubs had to get to the 10th or nothing else mattered. On the TBS postgame, Gary Sheffield and Pedro Martinez agreed with that, while Jimmy Rollins agreed with the path Maddon opted for.

Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

[cj]

Went full Buck Showalter last night. Buck left the best pitcher in the game last year on the bench because "it wasn't a save situation" and brought in a (horrible) starter, Ubaldo Jimenez, instead. And that was an elimination game.

These guys try to be too clever.

[reckless]

I confess to once being an uber mark for Joe Maddon. But that all changed and I thank Joe Maddon for this change!

Two years ago, Maddon gets out-managed by Terry Collins of all people. Now, I am a life-long Mets fan so the end result will never be forgotten -- the Mets were the 2015 NL champions!

Last season, the Cubs did win their first MLB championship in 108 years but they did so despite terrible managing by Maddon. Just terrible. His numerous bad moves and mistakes were tossed aside in the frenzy of Cubs Win! Cub Win! Cubs Nation mania.

This year it seems to me he's not offering much from the dugout.

It's still way too early to bury the team for 2017, of course, but so far, it does look like the Cubbies are working on their next 100 year World Series drought.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by reckless

I confess to once being an uber mark for Joe Maddon. But that all changed and I thank Joe Maddon for this change!

Two years ago, Maddon gets out-managed by Terry Collins of all people. Now, I am a life-long Mets fan so the end result will never be forgotten -- the Mets were the 2015 NL champions!

Last season, the Cubs did win their first MLB championship in 108 years but they did so despite terrible managing by Maddon. Just terrible. His numerous bad moves and mistakes were tossed aside in the frenzy of Cubs Win! Cub Win! Cubs Nation mania.

This year it seems to me he's not offering much from the dugout.

It's still way too early to bury the team for 2017, of course, but so far, it does look like the Cubbies are working on their next 100 year World Series drought.

I'm not as good at "prognosticating" as you are...but I am willing to bet serious money that the Cubs will win another MLB championship before the Mets do...Joe Maddon notwithstanding.

[reckless]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I'm not as good at "prognosticating" as you are...but I am willing to bet serious money that the Cubs will win another MLB championship before the Mets do...Joe Maddon notwithstanding.

We agree on that one Gus!!

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by Whosonfirst

Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

So wanted the Cards to pursue him after last season, along with Adam Eaton (who likely wouldn't have been injured in '17, things being different). Instead we get Brett Cecil and Dex Fowler...

Cecil...4yrs @30 mil
Fowler 5yrs @82 mil
VS
Turner 4 yrs @64$mil
Eaton 5yr @23mil

On the other hand, Turner didn't want to leave LA and they would have taken on all bidders.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by cj

Went full Buck Showalter last night. Buck left the best pitcher in the game last year on the bench because "it wasn't a save situation" and brought in a (horrible) starter, Ubaldo Jimenez, instead. And that was an elimination game.

These guys try to be too clever.

That may not have been Maddon's worst mistake...

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/joe-...d-a-bad-night/

[johnhannibalsmith]

Maddon's magic must be in the way he motivates men because I've always thought he was just plain lucky to get away with some of the moves he makes or doesn't make.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I started a similar thread last year, but I couldn't find it on this site...so, I am starting it all over again. With the score tied late in the game, and after watching the Dodgers use their ace closer from the 8th inning..."genius" Joe Maddon elects to bring in John Lackey in the Dodger 9th...and keeps him in even though Lackey was having obvious control problems. When asked after the game why Wade Davis wasn't warming up in the pen with the day off tomorrow...Maddon incredulously stated that his closer wasn't warming up because "it wasn't a save situation".

The Cubs manager can't manage a relief-pitching staff to save his life...and his team deserves extra credit for doing as well as they've done with him at the helm.

My problem is that he didn't intentionally walk Justin Turner. I know that would have loaded the bases but only one run mattered. I know Cody Bellinger is having a monster year, but Turner was five for seven (now six for eight with runners in scoring position in the post season this year.

So we have the wrong pitcher (Lackey) and the wrong tactic (Pitching to Turner). Other than that, Maddon did fine in the ninth inning yesterday.

[mostpost]

Not only is Maddon screwing up on a regular basis, the Cubs players are performing well below their potential.

Following is a list of Cubs hitters with their post season batting averages compared to their regular season averages

Willson Contreras Avg. -96 OPS -180

Javier Baez Avg. -273 OPS -701

Kris Bryant Avg. -216 OPS -489

Anthony Rizzo Avg -119 OPS -350

Addison Russell Avg. -31 OPS -36

Ben Zobrist Avg -21 OPS -127

Albert Almora Avg -67 OPS -35


Jason Heyward Avg -126 OPS -345

Jon Jay Avg Avg -74 OPS -71

Kyle Schwarber Avg -86 OPS -435.

That is certainly not the way to win an NLCS, or the coed softball game at the company picnic.

[Nutz and Boltz]

Originally Posted by Whosonfirst

Turner is Kirk Gibson re-incarnated. What a beast.

Turner is another one that the Mets let get away. Both he and Murphy turned into different kind of hitters after they left them.