Another photo finish controversy at Del Mar

[AltonKelsey]

PA, guess there aren't enough real issues and problems for folks to dwell on. Inventing phantom insults is a popular meme

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I really haven't seen one instance of a photo finish in the last 5-10 years that I can remember thinking either the stewards or the equipment itself got wrong. I'm sure it happened and I'm just not remembering it, but it has to be extremely, extremely rare...

Check the finish of the 1st race at Parx on 9/3/17.

[Franco Santiago]

Not sure if anyone posted it yet, but this is worth a read on how photo finishes work. Also explains the distortion from in the photo (someone asked why the video shows the horse's leg in a different position in the Del Mar race).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_finish

Uhm...no mention of using shadows LOL!!

[davew]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Check the finish of the 1st race at Parx on 9/3/17.

watched a replay - interesting

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...t-malfunction/

[Andy Asaro]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...ation-summary/


• Staff presented a report (attached to this news release) on the CHRB review of the photo-finish technology in use at California racetracks. After contacting major racetracks in other states and their vendor, staff determined that the California vendor, Plusmic, uses “state-of-the-art” technology for photo finishes. However, the review determined that the monitors in the stewards' stands at racetracks used by stewards to review photos require updating to high definition (HD). The monitor in the stand at Santa Anita already has been upgraded to HD and similar upgrades at other tracks will become part of the licensing process.

[Racetrack Playa]

2018 and the stewards do not have HD monitors


Paulick posted this link about PFs @ Woodbine

YouTube

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...ation-summary/


• Staff presented a report (attached to this news release) on the CHRB review of the photo-finish technology in use at California racetracks. After contacting major racetracks in other states and their vendor, staff determined that the California vendor, Plusmic, uses “state-of-the-art” technology for photo finishes. However, the review determined that the monitors in the stewards' stands at racetracks used by stewards to review photos require updating to high definition (HD). The monitor in the stand at Santa Anita already has been upgraded to HD and similar upgrades at other tracks will become part of the licensing process.

I still think the NFL holds the record for the time it takes to review a play and based on the BS they feed you on why the play stood or was reversed is another 3 to 4 minutes(and of course 4 commercials in between). Photo finishes are normally pretty quick unless you have a dead heat.
I never knew they didn't have HD at some tracks that is in itself not good!

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

A friend of mine, Ken Klein (who passed about 15 months ago), taught me a cool shortcut to telling who the winner is.

He said, "The shadow has no camera angle."

BTW, this works really well when eyeballing a race at the wire.



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

That might be the dumbest thing ever.

Look at the shadow on the photo finish picture on comment #4.

Stopped reading the thread after that.

Not only is the angle important of the sun important, so is the height of the object (in this case the horse) making the shadow. Additionally for extra, look at the shadow of the jockeys - you would think that the wrong one was in front if you went by the shadows.

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I really haven't seen one instance of a photo finish in the last 5-10 years that I can remember thinking either the stewards or the equipment itself got wrong. I'm sure it happened and I'm just not remembering it, but it has to be extremely, extremely rare...

Just a clarification, it's never the Stewards making that call, it's the Placing Judges. I never had a Steward attempt to influence or over-rule me on a call ever. In fact, most won't even give you an opinion, although they will take a look at close ones from time to time.

I only had two instances in the thousands of races I judged where there were problems with the photo finish system itself.

1) Had a race at River Downs on Breeders' Cup day where we ran a couple after the Classic. River had no finish line lights. The last race was pretty dark and we were still in the black and white film era. Saddle cloths were still white numbers on black cloths. All you could really see in the negative were the saddle towel and head numbers. Everything else was basically clear. Fortunately the horses were pretty spread out, and the video replay was good enough for us to sort everything out. Also of note, just to be safe, we sent one of the Placing Judges down to the outside rail of the track for better viewing just in case.

2) The other race was at Canterbury, and the photo finish system completely failed. Again lucky the horses were spread out. All of us agreed on the order from our written finish order from watching live, and we watched the video replay which confirmed everything.

I was never part of a hanging of bad numbers, although I did catch one at another track. While working at Beulah during a 7/7 card with Thistledown, I caught the Thistledown judges hanging bad numbers in one of their races. We had an open call to the Steward's stand up there, and I screamed out "Stop" before they were going to go official and told them to look at their toteboard (which I could see on TV). Got a big thank you on that one ...

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by toddbowker

Just a clarification, it's never the Stewards making that call, it's the Placing Judges. I never had a Steward attempt to influence or over-rule me on a call ever. In fact, most won't even give you an opinion, although they will take a look at close ones from time to time.

I only had two instances in the thousands of races I judged where there were problems with the photo finish system itself.

1) Had a race at River Downs on Breeders' Cup day where we ran a couple after the Classic. River had no finish line lights. The last race was pretty dark and we were still in the black and white film era. Saddle cloths were still white numbers on black cloths. All you could really see in the negative were the saddle towel and head numbers. Everything else was basically clear. Fortunately the horses were pretty spread out, and the video replay was good enough for us to sort everything out. Also of note, just to be safe, we sent one of the Placing Judges down to the outside rail of the track for better viewing just in case.

2) The other race was at Canterbury, and the photo finish system completely failed. Again lucky the horses were spread out. All of us agreed on the order from our written finish order from watching live, and we watched the video replay which confirmed everything.

I was never part of a hanging of bad numbers, although I did catch one at another track. While working at Beulah during a 7/7 card with Thistledown, I caught the Thistledown judges hanging bad numbers in one of their races. We had an open call to the Steward's stand up there, and I screamed out "Stop" before they were going to go official and told them to look at their toteboard (which I could see on TV). Got a big thank you on that one ...

In Ca the Stewards make the final call using antiquated equipment. This is one of the most embarrassing episodes ever for California Racing and it took Commissioner Auerbach asking Scott Chaney a simple question to expose the truth. Amazing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Denny

That might be the dumbest thing ever.

Not even close.

[ultracapper]

When they're running head and head down the stretch, the shadows are always what I look at to determine which horse has the edge. Obviously, different times of the day are better than others, but it's still a very good barometer of positioning.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

In Ca the Stewards make the final call using antiquated equipment. This is one of the most embarrassing episodes ever for California Racing and it took Commissioner Auerbach asking Scott Chaney a simple question to expose the truth. Amazing.

STEWARDS have final say -if they so choose-when placing malfunctions or snafus occur-but usually prefer to remain safely unaccountable.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by mountainman

STEWARDS have final say -if they so choose-when placing malfunctions or snafus occur-but usually prefer to remain safely unaccountable.

We have activist Stewards in California who don't tell the truth on a regular basis. Scott Chaney's performance on TVG should have caused him to be terminated IMO.

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

In Ca the Stewards make the final call using antiquated equipment.

Have been out of the placing stand for a long time, but Plusmic was always considered to be the best system out there, and the comments from the CHRB meeting on 1/25/18 seems to confirm it still is. All the CHRB asked for was a better monitor in the Placing Judge's stand. Interesting that the CHRB rules allow for the Stewards to make a final determination, although it appears it's only supposed to be for dead heats or when the placing judges don't agree.

Originally Posted by mountainman

STEWARDS have final say -if they so choose-when placing malfunctions or snafus occur-but usually prefer to remain safely unaccountable.

I have never experienced that. Even offered a few times to let them give an opinion on particularly difficult decisions. Was always told it was on the Placing Judges to make the call, even if they did take a look. Rules in Ohio and Minnesota (where I spent most of my time) specifically state the placing judge's decision is final.