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Old 12-06-2021, 05:53 PM   #31
Rex Phinney
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Unfortunately, the way its going I can see the heavy hand of the federal government coming into to regulate the sport because the people inside refuse to correct and penalize some bad actors in the sport.

Give another 5 or 10 years and there won't be anything to regulate.....
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:56 PM   #32
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Baffert is a symptom, not the cause of the problem. Either accept the sport as it is and bet it, or don’t, American racing can’t and won’t change
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:11 PM   #33
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Swale, for one, who parallels Medina Spirit quite a bit now.


Surely they should've gotten rid of Woody Stephens in the midst of his 5 consecutive Belmont wins. He must've been cheating.
One other in 37 years does not seem like a lot for a similar high profile horse.

Don't remember Woody ever being considered a cheater, but I get your point that his success could breed suspicion.
I still have the Bloodhorse with the Swale necropsy details. I think a cause of death was heart attack, but somewhat inconclusive as to the why.

That one was another tough one to take for a similarly game type of horse like Medina Spirit.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:27 PM   #34
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Well happened with Swale.

So that is 2 derby winners out of the last 37 so it happens I guess more than one would think.

Of course if it was just derby winners I suppose it wouldnt be that big of deal.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:43 PM   #35
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CAL RACING BEYOND BAFFERT

I have been following thoroughbred racing a long time and was there when Swale won the Belmont Stakes in I believe 1984. I know record keeping is much more robust today on things like this, in terms of horse deaths. My observation is and I am sure there are threads addressing this - why did Miller take a leave. So they published it had nothing to do with his horses dying on the track / around the track.



I am not defending Bob Baffert. My belief is he works horses very hard, and runs them on a dirt track that is 44 and change sometimes, and they are generally expensive, and we never hear from them again, and it could be his training methods do work for some, and destroy others. I mean, he tends to work them hard. He tends to get a lot of expensive horses and they disappear if they fail.


Back to Miller, doesn't this fit in. Is there a database in CA for all horse in the last xx years, and how they died? in terms of on track, in barn, etc. There has to be.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:54 PM   #36
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One could argue if the CHRB had dealt harshly with Baffert's past sudden horse deaths and not swept Justify's Santa Anita Derby test under the rug:

Racing might find itself in a different place than where it is today.



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Old 12-06-2021, 07:07 PM   #37
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Back to Miller, doesn't this fit in. Is there a database in CA for all horse in the last xx years, and how they died? in terms of on track, in barn, etc. There has to be.
There could be. This list is all inclusive 2014-2021.

https://horseracingwrongs.org/killed-2021/

Medina Spirit made the list today......bottom entry.

Last edited by Mr_Ed; 12-06-2021 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:12 PM   #38
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I agree with Stuball. Baffert shouldn't be allowed to race anwhere!
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:16 PM   #39
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Until they get rid of clen it definitely won't stop. Bob has the best clen program in town and the elephant in the room is largely because everyone else has one too so the horsemen aren't ready to sling too many arrows his way. Who is saying get rid of clenbuterol? To his credit Casse is one, hats off to him with that bloodhorse piece, there probably are others on the WHOA but from the majority I think we'll still get crickets.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:23 PM   #40
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THANKS

The thing is, I did research for a living. Listing this, is great. I think it needs a lot of work, including horses that are thoroughbred, who are not racing, who die on farms, just running like a friend who had one like that. It needs total starts; this is complicated stuff. This does help though. The assumption is that top horses cannot die, but they have a lot of desire, and push to get where they are independent of drug or illicit behavior.



Who are the trainers, what were the circumstances, age etc. Look what happened at Laurel last week or so. If it is Baffert, it is headline news, maybe that's fair, but still this is good stuff to ponder in depth here.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:28 PM   #41
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There could be. This list is all inclusive 2014-2021.

https://horseracingwrongs.org/killed-2021/

Medina Spirit made the list today......bottom entry.
Someone has done a lot of work at that website for each horse death
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:32 PM   #42
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I NOW HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO ON CLEN

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18926742/


THERE ARE NUMEROUS RESEARCH ARTICLES ON IT. I DID THIS WHEN THE BETA THING CAME UP. THANKS
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:43 PM   #43
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Saw a bulletin on ESPN about this.

They made it sound horrible!

They counted up 40 horse deaths in last 18 months
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Old 12-06-2021, 08:12 PM   #44
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I'd be interested in hearing what he was still even working him for. Was there some kind of plan besides retirement? I hate the classic for three year olds who let it all hang out through the triple crown chase, it's bad news looking for another peak that late in the season. It's a cringe, take your best shot and then retire if you go for it IMO.
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Old 12-06-2021, 08:14 PM   #45
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Someone has done a lot of work at that website for each horse death
Hear, hear. Hats off to these people, indeed!
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