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Old 11-06-2021, 10:54 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
They even out over the population. Not over the individual.

Some people lucked out on this one. You aren't hearing from them, but they exist. And everyone lucks out occasionally if they play the game enough.

If you don't accept the risk that strange things might kill your bet on unpredictable animals, this isn't the right game to play.
I'm fine with strange things happening with animals, incompetent humans not so much.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:00 AM   #92
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I'm fine with strange things happening with animals, incompetent humans not so much.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:04 AM   #93
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I'm fine with strange things happening with animals, incompetent humans not so much.
Sone of your toughest beats have surely come because of stuff humans (jockeys) have done. And this one was set off by an animal (the ). I don't think that distinction works.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:12 AM   #94
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The scratch only cost me a win bet. So I'm not nearly as upset as some people are (and should be).

That said, I'd like to flip this conversation a little from the actual mistake of scratching him to what the solution should be when a horse is mistakenly or accidentally scratched and then the decision is reversed.

Ideally, you'd like to just push a button and allow the computer systems to reverse it all and then give players a little extra time to cancel or change some some wagers if they feel the incident changed the race. But I'm almost certain most systems aren't built with that functionality because it virtually never happens. I'd be surprised if any can handle it.

Setting aside that ideal, what would have been the best outcome?
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:15 AM   #95
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Sone of your toughest beats have surely come because of stuff humans (jockeys) have done. And this one was set off by an animal (the ). I don't think that distinction works.
We all get some wrong. A bad performance athletically isn't nearly the same as what happened yesterday. A bad ride is part of the contest itself.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:18 AM   #96
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I'm fine with strange things happening with animals, incompetent humans not so much.
You need to get used to it with more government employees every day.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:18 AM   #97
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The scratch only cost me a win bet. So I'm not nearly as upset as some people are (and should be).

That said, I'd like to flip this conversation a little from the actual mistake of scratching him to what the solution should be when a horse is mistakenly or accidentally scratched and then the decision is reversed.

Ideally, you'd like to just push a button and allow the computer systems to reverse it all and then give players a little extra time to cancel or change some some wagers if they feel the incident changed the race. But I'm almost certain most systems aren't built with that functionality because it virtually never happens. I'd be surprised if any can handle it.

Setting aside that ideal, what would have been the best outcome?
Obviously the technology to put a horse back in can't be done. And that goes back to horse racing living in the 70s. That is the solution, update your tote technology. It needs it on many fronts.

There is zero reason the 1 should have been removed from horizontal pools. Those pools were locked. The only reason it was is because, once again, the technology can't differentiate. Why? See above.

One possible solution is to make it an all race IMO. People that bet the 1 or 2 didn't want the 3, and people that bet the 3 didn't want the people that bet the 1 or 2 moved to their horse.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:19 AM   #98
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You need to get used to it with more government employees every day.
I was in the Air Force for 23 years and 2 months, I know all about this.

Last edited by cj; 11-06-2021 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:30 AM   #99
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My initial take was wrong. But your bashing on the media for accurately covering when our sport kills horses is just ridiculous.

People in this sport have to grow up about media coverage. We don't get to kill horses anymore with nobody watching. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
And if stewards and vets err on the side of safety, that's a good thing too.
Scratching on side of caution, ok I can handle that reason. But then to allow him to run for purse money only is bullshit. How is allowing him to run looking out for his health? He still could have fallen down and then the ? would've been why let him run if he was a scratch. Bullshit reasoning on chrb and breeders cup.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:40 AM   #100
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One possible solution is to make it an all race IMO. People that bet the 1 or 2 didn't want the 3, and people that bet the 3 didn't want the people that bet the 1 or 2 moved to their horse.
That seems like a reasonable solution until they update the tote system in 2050.

But I'm not even sure they could push a button and make it an all race.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:42 AM   #101
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I was in the Air Force for 23 days and 2 months, I know all about this.
Typo?
23 years and 2 months....
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post

Setting aside that ideal, what would have been the best outcome?

best outcome/or course of action? - Treat scratching and/or purse-money-only situations as Serious things.

Take few moments to discuss it.


They should have the stewards vote on it, and then have a person who actually knows racing and betting (not a steward obviously) have the power to consider their recommendation and then over-rule it.

Obviously if a horse isn't fit to be a part of wagering, he shouldn't be risking it's life, or other horses in the field, screwing up the running and betting of the race. Or in this case, if the horse is perfectly fine and the owners are running for the purse they are favored to get a good chunk of - the betting should not be affected.

then some of those few people who actually know horse racing should have an ongoing qualification/tutoring relationship with the stewards.

things like our goofy open-to-interpretation rulings on 'cost someone a minor placing' vs 'was much the best' , or 'broke through the gate prior to the start', or 'herded in the lane' or 'took out rival at start' or 'ran in company with super stablemate until the turn which he took personal shots at Bill Lambier for being the best screen-setter of all time' , etc... etc... etc...

these things in the best course of action would have competent judges, and the decisions would be base on an ever improving set of protocol/standard-operating-procedure, and not weigh heavily/randomly on whether the connections of the horse involved are VIPS

but that's way beyond reality, or what someone on a message board cares to read


EDIT - the tote system does in fact stink
EDIT2 - CALI has done lots of boneheaded things
EDIT3 - Beyond technology, and region - We have incompetent people making these decisions in every jurisdiction. I don't want to say 'stupid' people, but what they are is ignorant to the correct and consistent way of handling protocol, and they are either simply clueless on that basis, or they even have added bias of emotion and of a power-dynamic of who they are dealing with.

We could have Alien Matrix technology, and we'd be just as screwed with these stooges, and racing's lack of emphasis on bettering it.
A lot of it really is like a dice roll once it gets to that point. You handicap, you get fortunate enough that the horses run their races this time and it works out similar to what you foresaw... then *FLAG* ... Now all your confidence is gone and it's a totally new random realm of outcome.
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 11-06-2021 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:57 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
That seems like a reasonable solution until they update the tote system in 2050.

But I'm not even sure they could push a button and make it an all race.
I know you're kidding, but obviously they can do that because it is in place for late surface changes.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:57 AM   #104
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Typo?
23 years and 2 months....
Yep. I'll go fix it.
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:31 PM   #105
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Scratching on side of caution, ok I can handle that reason. But then to allow him to run for purse money only is bullshit. How is allowing him to run looking out for his health? He still could have fallen down and then the ? would've been why let him run if he was a scratch. Bullshit reasoning on chrb and breeders cup.
Owner of Modern Games...Godolphin.

Just sayin'...

Not meant to be a dig on you in any way, Gamblin4ever. The dig is on The Breeder's Cup...and the CHRB.
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