Benghazigate takes a turn

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Tom

Very happy to see you are still out there, Lefty. One post from you makes up for 6,7 months of mostie.

Ditto!

Lefty! Been wondering where you've been.

PA and I were discussing you not long ago. Hope you are well

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

I believe that if you drag an ambassador through the streets and do the things that were reported to have happened to our Libyan Ambassador, then its an eye for an eye. YOU FIND THE BASTARDS and castrate them to a slow death

That story has been debunked a thousand times. Check Snopes, read the Senate Select Committee report on Benghazi, find the CNN story on the matter, find the interview of the man who took the video.

In the photos on the incident, Stevens is being taken to a private car, because there were no ambulances or official vehicles available. Doctors at the hospital stated that Stevens suffered no injuries beyond those caused by the fire and smoke inhalation.

The stories you are reading and quoting are a total lie.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

I do NOT believe in "studies" that show a political point of view. There are and have been many reports about the use of interrogation and the results obtained. Sometimes Ice cream will work while others may require you pulling panties over a naked mans head in a prison. THE POINT IS that war is hell! You treat your opponent as you are treated. The Geneva Convention provides for how to act. The problem with such things is our opponents know this and use it against us. Americans are such caring and giving people that our opponents know we do not have the stomach to see the atrocities that occur (whether you want to see them or not) on television.

What you don't believe in is anything that disagrees with any of your preconceived notions. Rather than try to learn anything, you simply choose to ignore conflicting information. You need to read "The Black Banners" by Ali H. Soufan. Ali Soufan is an FBI agent who interrogated suspect terrorists in the middle east.

Part six of the book is of particular interest to our discussion. It chronicle the interrogation of one Abu Zubaydah. Originally the interrogations were conducted by Ali Soufan of the FBI using techniques developed by the FBI. Over time Soufan was able to glean a great deal of useful information from Zubaydah. Washington was not satisfied.

They sent in a team of contractors to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Zubaydah was subjected to long periods without sleep, continous loud noise, being drenched with freezing water and other tortures.

The result? They got nothing. Zubaydah shut down. He gave them nothing.

After awhile the Administration pulled the contractors and turned Zubaydah back over to Soufan. It took Soufan some time to reestablish a rapport with Zubaydah, but when he did he was once again able to get valuable information from him.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Tom

Very happy to see you are still out there, Lefty. One post from you makes up for 6,7 months of mostie.

One post by lefty is equal to ten of yours, which is still a negative number.
Nevertheless, I too am happy to hear from lefty again.

[woodtoo]

Originally Posted by mostpost

What you don't believe in is anything that disagrees with any of your preconceived notions. Rather than try to learn anything, you simply choose to ignore conflicting information. You need to read "The Black Banners" by Ali H. Soufan. Ali Soufan is an FBI agent who interrogated suspect terrorists in the middle east.

Part six of the book is of particular interest to our discussion. It chronicle the interrogation of one Abu Zubaydah. Originally the interrogations were conducted by Ali Soufan of the FBI using techniques developed by the FBI. Over time Soufan was able to glean a great deal of useful information from Zubaydah. Washington was not satisfied.

They sent in a team of contractors to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Zubaydah was subjected to long periods without sleep, continous loud noise, being drenched with freezing water and other tortures.

The result? They got nothing. Zubaydah shut down. He gave them nothing.

After awhile the Administration pulled the contractors and turned Zubaydah back over to Soufan. It took Soufan some time to reestablish a rapport with Zubaydah, but when he did he was once again able to get valuable information from him.

What does this have to do with the Benghazi perps?They know who is responsible and choose to do nada.Billery was interrogated and gave up
nada also.But at this point what does it really matter eh Mostie.

Old news, lets just move on to something more pressing.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Myself, I do believe America is the most exceptional country on the face of the planet. When another country needs help we are first to be there with that help and we will continue to do so. We have showed other countries how great democracy is and the people of other countries have seen it via our movies and products. The world is a better place because of America and if we ever lose our freedom or think we are not exceptional, the world will be the lesser for it.

Exactly how it has been going way back, no matter how ungrateful others are we still give. Now I am not talking about the lesser being ungrateful, but Americans who have done well and received generous pensions after a lifetime of full employment to now talk shit and advocate spending every last penny that we do not have and our kids and grand kids future earnings to boot. Lefty is not the only guy who gets it correct, many do. I truly admire those of you who are not forgetting those brave souls who were lost at Benghazi.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

That story has been debunked a thousand times. Check Snopes, read the Senate Select Committee report on Benghazi, find the CNN story on the matter, find the interview of the man who took the video.

In the photos on the incident, Stevens is being taken to a private car, because there were no ambulances or official vehicles available. Doctors at the hospital stated that Stevens suffered no injuries beyond those caused by the fire and smoke inhalation.

The stories you are reading and quoting are a total lie.

Mosty,
I could care less what actually happened. Show me a story saying they did not kill him....then I will rethink my position. Our ambassadors are supposed to be protected by the country they are in at all times as well as our security forces. Failure on both accounts. Someone should pay for that and not be sitting in front of major hotels drinking whatever.

And I should believe a congressional report????? lmao.....

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

What you don't believe in is anything that disagrees with any of your preconceived notions. Rather than try to learn anything, you simply choose to ignore conflicting information. You need to read "The Black Banners" by Ali H. Soufan. Ali Soufan is an FBI agent who interrogated suspect terrorists in the middle east.

Part six of the book is of particular interest to our discussion. It chronicle the interrogation of one Abu Zubaydah. Originally the interrogations were conducted by Ali Soufan of the FBI using techniques developed by the FBI. Over time Soufan was able to glean a great deal of useful information from Zubaydah. Washington was not satisfied.

They sent in a team of contractors to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Zubaydah was subjected to long periods without sleep, continous loud noise, being drenched with freezing water and other tortures.

The result? They got nothing. Zubaydah shut down. He gave them nothing.

After awhile the Administration pulled the contractors and turned Zubaydah back over to Soufan. It took Soufan some time to reestablish a rapport with Zubaydah, but when he did he was once again able to get valuable information from him.

The same could can be said for you......(bolded).
The rest is anecdotal as you would say.....One interrogation and I am supposed to believe that is all interrogations??? C'mon.....But, as I said...WHATEVER gets the info we need. I am sure a case could be made on both sides and that's why I said EVERY scenario is different and we should act accordingly to each.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

Mosty,
I could care less what actually happened.

You don't even realize what you said there, do you?

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

You don't even realize what you said there, do you?

Of course I do, when you keep it in the context of what I actually said versus separating a sentence.
Now if you would like to put the whole quote up, we can talk about it.
I could care less (repeating it), whether ambassador stevens was dragged through the streets, sodomized, or whatever.....IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT HE WAS KILLED!
And, I went on to say "show me a story that says he was not killed" (that he died of natural causes).

[Tom]

Hillary refused protection, he died and OBama lied about it.
That is all you need to know about it.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

Of course I do, when you keep it in the context of what I actually said versus separating a sentence.
Now if you would like to put the whole quote up, we can talk about it.
I could care less (repeating it), whether ambassador stevens was dragged through the streets, sodomized, or whatever.....IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT HE WAS KILLED!
And, I went on to say "show me a story that says he was not killed" (that he died of natural causes).

Ambassador Stevens died as a result of the attack on the embassy. He died from smoke inhalation. No one denies that.

What did not happen was that he was dragged through the streets, nor was he sodomized, nor was he castrated. He was taken to the hospital by Libyans who were trying to help him. That act of kindness has been perverted into an atrocity by people on the right who will stop at nothing in vilifying President Obama and Hillary Clinton.

If all these things had happened to Stevens; if he had been sodomized and his genitalia cut off, do you think his family would have said nothing about it? Do you not think they would have expressed their outrage?

Here is a photo that is supposedly of Ambassador Stevens. (Warning: It is very graphic). The problem is the photo has been floating around the internet since at least 2009 and has been used to accuse all sorts of people of all sorts of things. None of which it was related to in any way. No one actually knows what it depicts or where it came from.
What is really despicable is that people are using false images in an attempt to discredit the President of the United States. None of those people gives a damn about Ambassador Stevens.


Here on the other hand is the actual picture of Libyans trying to help Ambassador Stevens. The man behind him as his arms under Stevens' arms and is trying to lift or support him. No one is violating him; no one is sodomizing him. There is no evidence that anyone ever did so.


You seem to have difficulty separating the Libyans who killed Stevens from those who tried to help him. Tragically he was killed. He was not dragged through the streets. He was not castrated while still alive or at all. He was not sodomized. Those are the lies of disgusting people. Only slightly less disgusting are those who continue to spread them.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Ambassador Stevens died as a result of the attack on the embassy. He died from smoke inhalation. No one denies that.

What did not happen was that he was dragged through the streets, nor was he sodomized, nor was he castrated. He was taken to the hospital by Libyans who were trying to help him. That act of kindness has been perverted into an atrocity by people on the right who will stop at nothing in vilifying President Obama and Hillary Clinton.

If all these things had happened to Stevens; if he had been sodomized and his genitalia cut off, do you think his family would have said nothing about it? Do you not think they would have expressed their outrage?

Here is a photo that is supposedly of Ambassador Stevens. (Warning: It is very graphic). The problem is the photo has been floating around the internet since at least 2009 and has been used to accuse all sorts of people of all sorts of things. None of which it was related to in any way. No one actually knows what it depicts or where it came from.
What is really despicable is that people are using false images in an attempt to discredit the President of the United States. None of those people gives a damn about Ambassador Stevens.


Here on the other hand is the actual picture of Libyans trying to help Ambassador Stevens. The man behind him as his arms under Stevens' arms and is trying to lift or support him. No one is violating him; no one is sodomizing him. There is no evidence that anyone ever did so.


You seem to have difficulty separating the Libyans who killed Stevens from those who tried to help him. Tragically he was killed. He was not dragged through the streets. He was not castrated while still alive or at all. He was not sodomized. Those are the lies of disgusting people. Only slightly less disgusting are those who continue to spread them.

No mosty, it is you who is having difficulty reading (as usual my post). Did I say anywhere to nuke Libya? Did I say start a war with Libya?
If you had read my post (and comprehended it), you would notice that I even mentioned the guy who was reported as being seen drinking whatever in front of a major hotel.

What I am opposed to is a head of state claiming "what difference does it make". It makes a ton of difference when ANY American life is lost to me. Especially under the scenario as Ambassador Stevens lost his life.

But, enough with Stevens......why have you not addressed any other issues I mentioned? I mentioned many. See, you accuse me of being partisan, yet you only wish to bring up topics where you think you can gain some political points.

Why not bring up all the waste in Washington, while we are economically struggling?

Why not bring up the issues of IF are going to commit to war, then lets make it swift and fast and end the damn thing versus dragging it out for years and years.

Why not address the facts of the bodies being hung from a bridge and burned and dragged through the streets?

Why not address the red line issues that the current administration seems to have a problem holding too?

You see, for me, I have said that I would start a war with Washington first and fore most. That is about as non partisan as you can get. You on the other hand will drink from Obama's bath water if given the chance.
I have no problem calling out Repugs. Line them up and show me there faults and I will gladly show you I will verbally take them to task just as the current administration. But, also recognize that I am right of the aisle so what you see as a fault, I see as hope in some cases.

There is a specific reason I refuse to vote for Vitter in Louisiana. But, just because I wont vote for Vitter DOES NOT mean that the despicable (in my opinion) Mary Landrieu will get my vote.

As for where I get my information, I try to read as much material as I can. Sure, most of it is right leaning. That does not mean I refuse to read left leaning material, it just means that if (for arguments sake) I believe and have experienced one thing to be true, and the author of a left leaning mag or rag is telling me something totally different then what I am experiencing, why should I continue on? Just so I can say that this guy or gal is full of shit in my opinion? I know enough about left leaning to know that it absolves people of personal responsibility and believes in the collective ( as long as the collective funds do not come from them). I have no problem helping the elderly and needy but, I have a huge problem helping someone who I can see with my own two eyes gaming the system.

I have a huge problem when you tell me that voter ID's suppress people from voting yet I have to have an ID to drive, buy liquor, gamble, etc etc.
Having an ID has not suppressed my ability to do none of the above.

I get it that we are opposed on most levels. But I am going to clue you in on something that I will only say this once. You and I have gone round and round...and quite honestly, if I met you, I am not going to say I wouldn't have the urge to kick your damn teeth in for some of your antics towards me here (and YES, you know what I am referring to). But, in the end, I appreciate your passion and I really believe that you think your ideas will better the country. I have no issue with mailmen or mail women. I have issues with Unions!
So for whatever its worth, I don't think you're a bad guy. You are intellectually smart (this is easily derived from your post). And as much as you claim to like people and want the best treatment for people around the world, you sure have a funny way of showing it here with your constant derogatory remarks towards some here. I will not pretend to speak for others, only myself. So again, to keep this civil, lets keep our discussions to the topics and politicians and not make them personal. It seems like a relatively easy request......you gain nothing by attempting to belittle people. Only belittling remarks in return which does no one any good and only serves for some form of self appreciation.
How is it possible to ask our representatives to work together when we cant even appreciate each other on a damn forum??? Now I know its easy to say turn the other cheek, (and I will admit in some cases I should). But I was always raised turning the other cheek only allows for the other cheek to be exposed......so let's not turn either cheek...

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Here on the other hand is the actual picture of Libyans trying to help Ambassador Stevens. The man behind him as his arms under Stevens' arms and is trying to lift or support him. No one is violating him; no one is sodomizing him. There is no evidence that anyone ever did so.


You seem to have difficulty separating the Libyans who killed Stevens from those who tried to help him. Tragically he was killed. He was not dragged through the streets. He was not castrated while still alive or at all. He was not sodomized. Those are the lies of disgusting people. Only slightly less disgusting are those who continue to spread them.

His face looks like it's taken a beating...someone with more experience in such things, correct me if I'm wrong.

Mosty says they attacked the embassy so they could rescue the ambassador. That's what he's saying...good God man...

[Lefty]

Thanks, Tom. Good to see you and others still fighting the good fight.