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04-12-2014, 12:11 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
HOWEVER --- If he enlisted inside help from the casino, then he deserves to be labeled cheater and (no pun) all bets should be off.
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I have looked into this further, and he did have help from the casino. It was the casino's own stupidity. There was nothing wrong with the cards. They are a standard design used by many casinos, and they were not defective. But the design is asymmetrical. What Ivey did requires two things. The deck has to be stacked, and the deck must then be shuffled in a way that does not nullify the stack.
Explanation here.
The news article says that Ivey's accomplice was telling the dealer how to turn or rotate the cards. In Baccarat, the players do not touch the cards, only the dealer. So she was telling the dealer how to stack the deck, and the dealer was doing so, supposedly under close watch by management.
Then the deck has to be shuffled in a way that does not change the orientation of the cards. A shuffling machine does not change the orientation. A dealer may or may not, depending on his technique and house policies, as explained in the link above. Ivey specified that he would only play if all shuffling was done by machine, and the house agreed.
So what happened was that Ivey asked that the house do certain things that gave him an edge, and the house agreed. My understanding is that the house will often accommodate high rollers with minor changes in rules, such as changing the dealer hit/stand rules in 21.
How can it be cheating if the house changes the rules to your advantage?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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04-12-2014, 02:54 PM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,978
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
There was nothing wrong with the cards.
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Of course, there was something wrong with the cards. If one edge is different than the others then something is wrong. Casino management was stupider than stupid.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-12-2014, 03:09 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
Of course, there was something wrong with the cards. If one edge is different than the others then something is wrong.
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I meant that there was no manufacturer defect. The cards were delivered as designed and as sold. The casino knew that the cards were asymmetric when they bought them. And as shown in the article I linked to, some casinos are aware that there is a potential problem with the cards if they are not shuffled properly.
This is all on the casino. Interesting that Ivey won the money in four different sessions spread over some period of time. One article said that Ivey won several million in the first session, and that the money was deposited directly to his account in a Mexican bank. And after that, the casino let him come back and play under the same conditions without figuring out that they had a problem. How dumb is that.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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04-12-2014, 03:27 PM
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#49
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,442
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A Mexican bank?
Well, he is a gambler... 
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04-12-2014, 03:46 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,978
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Oops
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
A Mexican bank?
Well, he is a gambler... |
I'm sure the IRS would love to hear more about that.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-12-2014, 03:59 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
A Mexican bank?
Well, he is a gambler... |
The article said he lives there. It didn't say anything about his citizenship.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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04-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On The Bay
Posts: 9,857
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I've never been able to figure out why counting cards is a no-no other than the casino says so.
__________________
I wouldn't say I drink too much but my mother did tell me that my first words were" when does happy hour start"?
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04-12-2014, 04:48 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CurtisontheBay
I've never been able to figure out why counting cards is a no-no other than the casino says so.
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That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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04-12-2014, 04:54 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: On The Bay
Posts: 9,857
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.
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Like Lambo said earlier. casino owners are crooks; that's why the only time I go to a casino is for the sports book or it's connected to horse racing.
__________________
I wouldn't say I drink too much but my mother did tell me that my first words were" when does happy hour start"?
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04-12-2014, 05:11 PM
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#55
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,744
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.
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Exactly, so screw them. No tears when they get beat.
They are vultures, so a bigger vulture came along.
Survival of the fittest.
This is gambling - you need balls and a brain.
May the best man win.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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04-21-2014, 01:21 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,565
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More on the Ivey cases
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04-21-2014, 01:39 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,978
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
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The Borgata should consider the 10 mil as part of a "kick me I'm stupid" fine and go on.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-21-2014, 01:40 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,565
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
The Borgata should consider the 10 mil as part of a "kick me I'm stupid" fine and go on.
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That would be fine by me, if they donated the money to charity.
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04-21-2014, 02:44 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 12,075
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David Sklansky used to run around Vegas looking for "Flaws" in different casino games. He often found them.
It's up to the casinos to protect themselves from their own stupidity.
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04-21-2014, 02:48 PM
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#60
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,442
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lefty
David Sklansky used to run around Vegas looking for "Flaws" in different casino games. He often found them.
It's up to the casinos to protect themselves from their own stupidity.
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Hey, Lefty...where you been?
Glad to see you back in action!!! A few folks here were wondering where you went and were hoping you were OK.
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