FINAL ODDS FLUCTUATION

[gambler844]

Is there easy way to determine at what tracks the final odds fluctuate the most in the final minuet?
Also what determines this. Is it handle size, distance run, purse, days of the week etc.
Sure would appreciate some wisdom.
Thanks for the help
ed

[SMOO]

I wuold assume that handle size would be near the top of the list.

[HUSKER55]

My understanding is that the online bettors total bets are not counted for until after the race starts. Something to do with the way data is sent and assembled. Major tracks are the most vulnerable.

[startngate]

Originally Posted by HUSKER55

My understanding is that the online bettors total bets are not counted for until after the race starts. Something to do with the way data is sent and assembled. Major tracks are the most vulnerable.

You would be incorrect ... ADW's are connected to tote hubs and transmit data the same way bricks and mortar locations do.

In fact, their information probably is included in the pools more quickly than the Florida and Arizona outlets which have double-hops, and California which has a 4 second close cancel delay.

[HUSKER55]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info

[njcurveball]

Originally Posted by startngate

You would be incorrect ... ADW's are connected to tote hubs and transmit data the same way bricks and mortar locations do.

In fact, their information probably is included in the pools more quickly than the Florida and Arizona outlets which have double-hops, and California which has a 4 second close cancel delay.

I can only speak for 4NJBETS and I can tell you that I have tested it on small tracks and my bets there do NOT go in the pools until after 5 minutes to post NO MATTER when I make them.

I have bet some pretty long horses and when I have a $10 win/place bet and the horse has $9 win and $8 place with 10 minutes to post I can ASSURE you my money has NOT hit the pool yet.

I cannot speak for Florida, Arizona, or any of the other 49 states, but in NJ I can tell you 100% the money is NOT transmitted the same way "bricks and mortar" locations do.

[BigJake]

You also need to consider the "conditional wager" money. That money doesn't go in until under a minute to post.

[facorsig]

Whales

[BeatTheChalk]

Originally Posted by startngate

You would be incorrect ... ADW's are connected to tote hubs and transmit data the same way bricks and mortar locations do.

In fact, their information probably is included in the pools more quickly than the Florida and Arizona outlets which have double-hops, and California which has a 4 second close cancel delay.

Could you translate a portion of your posting ...
** Double Hops ** and a 4 second close cancel delay
And please don't tell anyone that I didn't understand it

[Overlay]

Originally Posted by BeatTheChalk

Could you translate a portion of your posting ...
** Double Hops ** and a 4 second close cancel delay
And please don't tell anyone that I didn't understand it

Try these (gleaned from various web sites):

"Double-hops are problems which arise when transmitting data.

"A double-hop occurs when a server application (e.g. an ASP.NET Web application) tries to authenticate to a back-end system with the credentials of the user logged on the client machine.

"The problem we often see is an authentication issue between the two servers. Indeed users' credentials cannot be passed from the first server to the second one. If the first server tries to authenticate with the user's identity, the back-end server won't be able to validate this identity and there will be an authentication error (e.g. HTTP 401 error)."



"The close cancel delay is enabled at some racetracks to protect the mutuel teller from someone walking away from a ticket at off time. At most tracks, tellers are responsible for their shortages at the end of the day. It gives the teller a chance to cancel the ticket, so they are not out the money."

[startngate]

The close cancel delay explaination from Overlay is correct. Not so for the double hop.

A double hop in the US tote system occurs when a wager that is made at an outlet which is connected to one tote sytem has to be transmitted to another tote system prior to it being transmitted to the host track.

This mainly occurs when you have a State (like Florida) where a track controls the simulcast signals for the State. So if you were at one of the dog tracks for example, your bet on Santa Anita goes from your location, to the thoroughbred track in control of the signal (Tampa or Gulfstream) and they transmit the bet to Santa Anita. The track in control can't send final pools until all of the outlets have sent it their final pools, which can cause a delay.

Originally Posted by njcurveball

I can only speak for 4NJBETS and I can tell you that I have tested it on small tracks and my bets there do NOT go in the pools until after 5 minutes to post NO MATTER when I make them.

I have bet some pretty long horses and when I have a $10 win/place bet and the horse has $9 win and $8 place with 10 minutes to post I can ASSURE you my money has NOT hit the pool yet.

I cannot speak for Florida, Arizona, or any of the other 49 states, but in NJ I can tell you 100% the money is NOT transmitted the same way "bricks and mortar" locations do.

Win odds are now transmitted every 30 seconds according to the the TRA 2020 Committee stories I have seen. So how are you 'checking' to make sure of your bets not being transmitted into the pools? Just because you can't 'see' it yet doesn't mean your bet was not transmitted.

Tote systems update odds to the public displays every minute, and then anyone who is processing those odds for displaying them have to send the odds out to the graphical displays.

If you are using the toteboard on the ADW site, those odds can be 1:30 behind the actuals depending on screen refresh rates, and if you are using a streaming video feed it could be over 2:00 minutes delayed due to encoding times and the delays with the host track video feed updating the odds. All depends on when the odds were received from the tote feed, when they were processed, and how long it takes to do it.

And by the way, even if you were standing on-track and went to the window to make a bet on the live event it could be over a minute before you could see your money showing up in the pool on the toteboard. The toteboards also only refresh once a minute.

[ezrabrooks]

"Just because you can't 'see' it yet doesn't mean your bet was not transmitted."

What does that mean? The problem is with the tote board showing odds, regardless as to when they were transmitted.

Ez

[lamboguy]

i have a question. if you say they allow 4 seconds for a tote cancel, does that mean that the tote is still open for everything or just cancelling?
another question, if they give you 4 seconds to cancel, is it possible to get more time?

now correct me if i am wrong, isn't it a fact that the only ones that have these features are actual racetracks and not ADW"S for after the bell cancel's?

[startngate]

Originally Posted by ezrabrooks

"Just because you can't 'see' it yet doesn't mean your bet was not transmitted."

What does that mean? The problem is with the tote board showing odds, regardless as to when they were transmitted.

Ez

I was responding to njcurveball who claimed his bets were not transmitted. I never said the delay in toteboards, video feeds, and ADW screens showing the odds wasn't a problem. It is.

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i have a question. if you say they allow 4 seconds for a tote cancel, does that mean that the tote is still open for everything or just cancelling?
another question, if they give you 4 seconds to cancel, is it possible to get more time?

now correct me if i am wrong, isn't it a fact that the only ones that have these features are actual racetracks and not ADW"S for after the bell cancel's?

In a close cancel delay, the pools are locked for betting at off time. The delay only allows existing tickets to be cancelled, not wagers. Once the delay period is over, nothing more can be done, and the period can not be extended.

The ADW's would have no need for a cancel delay except for possibly if they have live operators taking bets. However for the majors in Oregon, I don't think they are allowed to by Commission rule, and I think many of them don't allow cancellations at all, even when the pools are open. I know YouBet does have some limited ability to cancel online, but I haven't seen it anywhere else.

[lamboguy]

every adw has cancellation buttons as far as i know, tvg has them and so doesnt premier turf club.

as far as the 4 seconds goes, i have been called by a racetrack and offered me 15 seconds to cancel if i was there. that was a year ago.

i have not been doing any break betting or cancelling this century yet, maybe next century!!!