Beware Daily Racing Form

[drib]

in the 6-9 month runup to the debut of the new condensed version of the DRF, i had noticed a disturbing trend. The past performances of many (smaller) tracks suddenly showed only 7 lines as opposed to the usual 10. Fortunately, with the switch to the smaller version, all tracks got the same 10 line format........until this week...Suddenly, starting Wednesday, only certain tracks (Santa Anita, GG, Aqu, Kee, Sunland, and Los Alamitos) continue to get 10 lines. Every other track pp's show only 7 lines. I am not aware of any notice by the DRF of this change, which, IMHO, represents a significant degradation in product, with of course, no change in sale price.

[Stillriledup]

DRF is doing what Tide detergent is doing, charging you the same price, but now you only get 92 Ounces instead of 100. Same price but sneakily, less product, but not enough for you to notice.

Good catch.

[greengorilla]

I haven't purchased a DRF form in literally years. There information is so unreliable and there comments are even worse. The track variant must be made up out of thin air, and there calls at all the poles are terribly inaccurate. I mean when you have horses 15L's out of it turning for home past the quarter pole then have it read 5L's you know there a scam. Brisnet or Equibase is the best by far for general form handicapping and reliable info.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by greengorilla

I haven't purchased a DRF form in literally years. There information is so unreliable and there comments are even worse. The track variant must be made up out of thin air, and there calls at all the poles are terribly inaccurate. I mean when you have horses 15L's out of it turning for home past the quarter pole then have it read 5L's you know there a scam. Brisnet or Equibase is the best by far for general form handicapping and reliable info.

Brisnet Equibase and DRF all get their (not there) information from the same place. It should be the same.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

DRF is doing what Tide detergent is doing, charging you the same price, but now you only get 92 Ounces instead of 100. Same price but sneakily, less product, but not enough for you to notice.

Good catch.

But at least that smaller amount of Tide had some value.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by greengorilla

I haven't purchased a DRF form in literally years. There information is so unreliable and there comments are even worse. The track variant must be made up out of thin air, and there calls at all the poles are terribly inaccurate. I mean when you have horses 15L's out of it turning for home past the quarter pole then have it read 5L's you know there a scam. Brisnet or Equibase is the best by far for general form handicapping and reliable info.

Doesn't the length-behind information originate from Equibase?

[greengorilla]

I've compared forms next to each other they are not the same running lines. I asked about this in january to private clocker for Romans and he explained to me that drf has it's own recap staff for each track. Also confirmed it with Leslie who works for Winn casinos setting up derby futures lines. So I dont think they are just reprinting equibases comments and calls in the races or there wouldn't be a difference in call lengths. I watch all the replays of every race every day at gulf with my own two eyes, and chart my own races with my own to eyes. That is how I know there publicartion is shoddy at best. from the calls to the comments to the track variant. Not to mention the print being to hard on your eyes.

[thaskalos]

The copyright for the DRF past-performances and the official result charts is held jointly by the DRF and the Equibase Co.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by greengorilla

I've compared forms next to each other they are not the same running lines. I asked about this in january to private clocker for Romans and he explained to me that drf has it's own recap staff for each track. Also confirmed it with Leslie who works for Winn casinos setting up derby futures lines. So I dont think they are just reprinting equibases comments and calls in the races or there wouldn't be a difference in call lengths. I watch all the replays of every race every day at gulf with my own two eyes, and chart my own races with my own to eyes. That is how I know there publicartion is shoddy at best. from the calls to the comments to the track variant. Not to mention the print being to hard on your eyes.

You, and those around you, are obviously terribly misinformed.

Beaten lengths data comes directly from Equibase, and only from Equibase. The only chart callers in existence at every single track in America are all employed by Equibase. Equibase collects the data and sends it to the Daily Racing Form. BRIS PPs use Equibase data. The VERY SAME data the Daily Racing Form uses. All data outlets (Timeform, DRF, BRIS, etc) get their running times and beaten lengths data from Equibase.

There is no other resource.

I challenge you to reproduce for us past performances from two different vendors for the same exact horse that shows different beaten lengths and/or fractional running times.

This is basic stuff man...and your statements above are cringe-worthy...

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by drib

in the 6-9 month runup to the debut of the new condensed version of the DRF, i had noticed a disturbing trend. The past performances of many (smaller) tracks suddenly showed only 7 lines as opposed to the usual 10. Fortunately, with the switch to the smaller version, all tracks got the same 10 line format........until this week...Suddenly, starting Wednesday, only certain tracks (Santa Anita, GG, Aqu, Kee, Sunland, and Los Alamitos) continue to get 10 lines. Every other track pp's show only 7 lines. I am not aware of any notice by the DRF of this change, which, IMHO, represents a significant degradation in product, with of course, no change in sale price.

Let me ask you a question. Has the Daily Racing Form ever stated on their cover or anywhere else that they guarantee 10 lines per horse for every horse that has run at least 10 times?

I don't believe they ever have. Thus, if they weren't guaranteeing you 10 lines, how is it a ripoff if they offer less than 10 lines on certain tracks?

That's what I thought...

[Robert Goren]

The DRF get its running line information from Equibase just like BRIS. But Equibase charts are not the only charts out there for some tracks. There is Trakus. No one has yet to put out PPs using Trakus charts. Hopefully somebody will as more tracks start using it. I think the lengths back at fractional calls in the Equibase charts are not very reliable once you get beyond the first 2 or 3 horses. The further off the lead you get, the less reliable they become. In large fields even the running position at fractional calls are sometimes in err. Anybody who checks the charts against the video for couple of days will discover this.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Let me ask you a question. Has the Daily Racing Form ever stated on their cover or anywhere else that they guarantee 10 lines per horse for every horse that has run at least 10 times?

I don't believe they ever have. Thus, if they weren't guaranteeing you 10 lines, how is it a ripoff if they offer less than 10 lines on certain tracks?

That's what I thought...

I think his point (and OP can correct me if i'm wrong) was that if they offered 10 lines in the past and now they're only offering 7 and charging the same price, he feels that this behavior is "less forthcoming" than if they just raised the price and kept the same amount of info. Its like what Tide has done, they kept the same price, but "ripped off" the amount that they normally gave you, i think the "Ripoff" comment is that they're trying to do something 'sneaky' and hope you don't notice as opposed to just saying "We're raising the price"

[drib]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Let me ask you a question. Has the Daily Racing Form ever stated on their cover or anywhere else that they guarantee 10 lines per horse for every horse that has run at least 10 times?

I don't believe they ever have. Thus, if they weren't guaranteeing you 10 lines, how is it a ripoff if they offer less than 10 lines on certain tracks?

That's what I thought...

The loss of 3 past performance lines (from 10 to 7) is devastating to a serious handicapper. Yes, there are ways to get better information, but this stealth reduction makes life harder for the serious player (massive amounts of toner and paper needed to print out pp's), and really cruel for the casual fan.

[PaceAdvantage]

Calling it a ripoff is kinda harsh. If you happen to not care about the few tracks that have less than 10 lines max, it's not a ripoff, and in fact, you probably wouldn't have noticed.

My beef was your choice of words in the thread title. You have every right to be upset about losing lines...

[classhandicapper]

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