Goodbye Twinkies? +Quote on "Entitlement Society"

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

There is no maybe, so-called raises to Postal Execs are not the same as those to Hostess execs. Hostess execs put the company in the toilet through bad business decisions.

Because of the short shelf life of some of their products-notably their breads-
Hostess maintained many bakeries across the country. To cut costs the execs decided to use newly developed enzymes which were said to preserve the product longer and close many of their bakeries.

They ran into two problems. The enzymes changed the taste and the texture of the bread, making it gummy. Consolidating the bakeries did not result in the savings they expected since the cost of transporting the product over the greater distances offset the expected savings. Furthermore, the decreased frequency of deliveries to the retail stores resulted in half empty shelves.

The Hostess execs, who were not bakery trained, made bad business decisions; did not make pension contributions that they contracted to make; attempted to make draconian cuts to employees wages and benefits and awarded themselves huge salary increases and severance packages.

But somehow you think the fault lies with the union. There is a word from the past that describes your insistence on defending those execs. That word is Quisling.

My post had NOTHING to do with unions, my post had EVERYTHING to do with execs getting pay raises that you libs always cry about. Yet when you are shown the same thing in the public sector (like it or not, the USPS has been poorly managed), you try to deflect.
We get it...you will ALWAYS take the party line.
Bad management is bad management no matter how you spin it. And if a company, public or private sector can NOT remain viable through good management, they should FOLD UP!

[Tom]

That word is Quisling.

Hey now!
Get yer own material.

[lsbets]

Originally Posted by mostpost

so-called raises to Postal Execs

They are not so called raises. The performance of the underlying funds in someone's TSP or 401k is in no way counted as compensation.

Question - given that the USPS is bleeding money and will have to be bailed out by taxpayers, do you feel that postal workers should get raises?

Congress won't allow the reforms to need to be made at the USPS to be made until it is a full blown crisis, and given that fact, I don't necessarily think pay should be frozen. Should it be limited to just COLA until the mess is fixed? It's not the employees fault, for the most part the USPS is really good at what they do, but they don't charge enough and the business model is outdated. As I said, the mess won't be fixed until the taxpayers have to make good on the debts that the USPS can't pay, so its going to be a while until any reform happens.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

Tom, he constantly uses terms like "maybe" and other vague terms to keep from having to take a stand. No worries, we know what he is all about.
I find it quite funny not one lib has come out and said a word about the increases that execs at the post office recieved while FAILING yet they bash the other sectors.....It's quite telling who they are and what they are about.
As long as it benefits THEM, its quite alright.
No different in the taxes...as long as its not their taxes, lets raise em!!!
They do a great job at trying to manage others money lol

No they like to think they can... cause if they did... we'd not be in a hole so deep we can smell the fried rice.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

My post had NOTHING to do with unions, my post had EVERYTHING to do with execs getting pay raises that you libs always cry about. Yet when you are shown the same thing in the public sector (like it or not, the USPS has been poorly managed), you try to deflect.
We get it...you will ALWAYS take the party line.
Bad management is bad management no matter how you spin it. And if a company, public or private sector can NOT remain viable through good management, they should FOLD UP!

This whole thread is about blaming the unions. Are you saying you disagree with that? Because if you do it is the first time you have disagreed with blaming unions.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

This whole thread is about blaming the unions. Are you saying you disagree with that? Because if you do it is the first time you have disagreed with blaming unions.

Go back and read when and to whom I was interjecting the part about EXECUTIVE PAY........here's a hint, you may find it in the same one you quoted me from...#37 ....no where in there did I mention unions.....
My post was to RF and his claim about executives pay......
Nice to see you read whatever you want to in a thread (which is the norm for you)

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by lsbets

They are not so called raises. The performance of the underlying funds in someone's TSP or 401k is in no way counted as compensation.

Question - given that the USPS is bleeding money and will have to be bailed out by taxpayers, do you feel that postal workers should get raises?


Congress won't allow the reforms to need to be made at the USPS to be made until it is a full blown crisis, and given that fact, I don't necessarily think pay should be frozen. Should it be limited to just COLA until the mess is fixed? It's not the employees fault, for the most part the USPS is really good at what they do, but they don't charge enough and the business model is outdated. As I said, the mess won't be fixed until the taxpayers have to make good on the debts that the USPS can't pay, so its going to be a while until any reform happens.

If I were still working I would support a wage freeze. I would only do so if the freeze were accompanied by repeal of the law which requires prefunding of the Pension and Health benefit plans. The following is the last paragraph from the article Newt posted in #37.

Announcing $15.9 billion in losses for fiscal 2012, postal officials urged Congress to pass legislation that would address a host of issues, including a requirement that the Postal Service pre-fund retiree health care benefits. That mandate alone accounted for about 70 percent of the Postal Service’s net loss for fiscal 2012, officials said.

70% is a big percentage. It is more than twice all the other factors contributing to the deficit. Not only is it twice as much, it was completely unnecessary.

But having said that, it was not the only factor. You are right that the business model is outdated and needs to be changed. I myself use the internet and e-mail to do business. I order on line, pay on line, receive my retirement checks through direct deposit and communicate with my friends via e-mail and text message.

Still, about 30% of my close friends do not own computers. Drives me crazy!
Not every business has a web page. The Post Office is still a valuable component of our society.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by mostpost

If I were still working I would support a wage freeze. I would only do so if the freeze were accompanied by repeal of the law which requires prefunding of the Pension and Health benefit plans. The following is the last paragraph from the article Newt posted in #37.


70% is a big percentage. It is more than twice all the other factors contributing to the deficit. Not only is it twice as much, it was completely unnecessary.

But having said that, it was not the only factor. You are right that the business model is outdated and needs to be changed. I myself use the internet and e-mail to do business. I order on line, pay on line, receive my retirement checks through direct deposit and communicate with my friends via e-mail and text message.

Still, about 30% of my close friends do not own computers. Drives me crazy!
Not every business has a web page. The Post Office is still a valuable component of our society.

Ok postal guy, here's your chance to actually say something and have me listen as I truly do not know and wish to hear your side.....
As to the prefunding part, you wish to repeal, who negotiated that? Or is this a law which you union boys had nothing to do with?? I mean everything else is negotiated (at least in the union I was a part of). If it was in the negotiations, then TOUGH TITTY! Your union negotiated it and so ye shall live with!
But, the point is, as I have stated, poor management is poor management. If the USP is working with an outdated model, that's a sign of poor management to me! Not being able to keep up with the world is not anyone elses fault except for the business who failed to do so. Just as hostess made mistakes, so has the USPS. And if the lefts argument is that because of those poor management decisions they should go under, then the same would hold true for other business models (whether private or not). Personally, I say they should both go under if they can not run a profitable business.
As to whether or not the USPS is still viable, honestly I believe they are. But, significant changes need to be made and lets see if they are still viable AFTER the needed changes such as pricing.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Tom

Duh.
Do you have any clue what the line card for Hostess is?
And, more importantly, who the hell are you to tell them what to do?

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just musing on what should have been done, maybe. In any case, it seems it's too late to tell them what to do.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

When I owned my gas station, I had to pay into the state UI, and left $20k there when I got out, never had anyone claim against me, but that money is gone forever. The compnay never gets it back no matter what.

That's the way insurance works. For example, when you buy car insurance you never get any of the money back unless you have an accident. It's a bet that you will have an accident.

Unemployment insurance is a bet that the employee will be unemployed. The employee makes the bet and collects if he "wins." When the employer pays for the bet it's part of the employee's compensation.

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Then there was quarterly FUTA, federal UI. On top of that, and this is where most people miss the cost of employment, I had to match FICA. That's right, For those who do not understand, the employee was taxed 7.65% and I had to match that amount! Fica is Medicare and Social Security. Has nothing to do with "insurance".

But Medicare and Social Security are insurance, sort of. Both were conceived as insurance and based on actuarial principles, but then the courts got involved and turned them into political footballs.

[lsbets]

Originally Posted by mostpost

If I were still working I would support a wage freeze. I would only do so if the freeze were accompanied by repeal of the law which requires prefunding of the Pension and Health benefit plans. The following is the last paragraph from the article Newt posted in #37.


70% is a big percentage. It is more than twice all the other factors contributing to the deficit. Not only is it twice as much, it was completely unnecessary.

But having said that, it was not the only factor. You are right that the business model is outdated and needs to be changed. I myself use the internet and e-mail to do business. I order on line, pay on line, receive my retirement checks through direct deposit and communicate with my friends via e-mail and text message.

Still, about 30% of my close friends do not own computers. Drives me crazy!
Not every business has a web page. The Post Office is still a valuable component of our society.

You and I might have an exchange where we mostly agree and are cordial. I'm buying powerball tickets tomorrow.

I agree that the USPS is valuable in our society. I think you would agree that it has to shrink. Volume will continue to go down, and they have to adjust. They need to close facilities and reduce personnel. I have seen some satellite post offices, or whatever they are called, that are run privately and do other things to make money. Almost like a ups store. Expand those in areas that will lose actual post offices.

On personnel, since it is not a true crisis (yet) allow attrition to take its course. Don't replace all the retirees every year. That will require union cooperation, because it will reduce union jobs.

Pricing. I used the flat rate shipping a ton when I did a lot of shipping. It's a freakin steal. The rates are way too low compared to FedEx and ups. I would imagine all the other rates can go up 10-15 percent. They need to.

The biggest problem closing facilities will be congress. Mr rural congressman won't want to take a post office out of the town of 3000 people and listen to them bitch about going to the next town over the 4 times a year they actually go to the post office. Big city congressman won't want to listen to his constituents botch when they go from 4 to 3. As long as they think closing facilities will piss off the old ladies in their district who always vote, they won't let them close.

And stop Saturday delivery. It's not needed.

[JustRalph]

Give every dime spent on the Postal Service to FedEx and watch them develop a better service.

[Tom]

Overnight!

[HUSKER55]

guaranteed delivery included?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Jay Trotter

Tom, a cat person! I would have figured him a dog man all the way.

Tom hates freeloaders. The cat probably pays rent.