Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Off Topic > Off Topic - General
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 158 votes, 4.96 average. Display Modes
Old 03-03-2015, 11:43 PM   #17536
Actor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I was talking in terms of man's moral-spiritual condition. But then I can understand how you would have missed my meaning since you can't possibly think you are moral being, as you have no understanding of what good and evil is.
So the invention of the printing press, which motivated the translation of the Bible into English and other languages, and the spread of literacy, which allowed more people to read it, did not change things at all?
__________________
Some people even find clarity threatening. If you say something straight and clear, straightforward, unambiguous it sounds to some people as though they're being attacked -- Richard Dawkins
Actor is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 02:00 AM   #17537
dnlgfnk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis suburb
Posts: 408
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
You are obviously a highly educated man...so you must know the manner in which Bruno died...and the torture that he endured before his ultimate demise. We see what you think of Bruno, and his scientific credentials. What have you to say about the Church which put him to death?


Evening, Thask.
And Hank if you're reading, you had a similar post.

When a self-described, intelligent atheist agrees with what I've read elsewhere, I tend to agree about Bruno. He entered the Dominicans under false pretenses, denying Christ's divinity, etc., etc., but keeping everything under his hat--a very strange cat.

I think it was wrong to submit Bruno to that fate, though not sure about "torture". It took 7 years to evaluate his case. The dangerous thing for the church in any age is to allow the culture to influence her members, rather than vice versa. The church was too close to the state in the context of the times.

Hopefully there is a similar level of outrage at the champions of the French Revolution, flying the flag of "Reason" (Reign of Terror) and introducing the guillotine to clerics and Catholic peasants, et.al., the gulags, and this guy...

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=290513

I hope I'm like you, Thask, in that I'm not going to let anyone else decide for me what's true--not even episcopal malfeasance in the past or present. I simply find what the Catholic Church proposes as truth compelling, like scores of intelligent and sincere individuals far more than me.

I'm not about the hopeless attempt of "converting" anybody over the internet. When I do participate, against my common sense, it may be to clarify a fact or present my beliefs as reasonable.
dnlgfnk is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM   #17538
Hank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,103
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
Evening, Thask.
And Hank if you're reading, you had a similar post.

When a self-described, intelligent atheist agrees with what I've read elsewhere, I tend to agree about Bruno. He entered the Dominicans under false pretenses, denying Christ's divinity, etc., etc., but keeping everything under his hat--a very strange cat.

I think it was wrong to submit Bruno to that fate, though not sure about "torture". It took 7 years to evaluate his case. The dangerous thing for the church in any age is to allow the culture to influence her members, rather than vice versa. The church was too close to the state in the context of the times.

Hopefully there is a similar level of outrage at the champions of the French Revolution, flying the flag of "Reason" (Reign of Terror) and introducing the guillotine to clerics and Catholic peasants, et.al., the gulags, and this guy...

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=290513

I hope I'm like you, Thask, in that I'm not going to let anyone else decide for me what's true--not even episcopal malfeasance in the past or present. I simply find what the Catholic Church proposes as truth compelling, like scores of intelligent and sincere individuals far more than me.

I'm not about the hopeless attempt of "converting" anybody over the internet. When I do participate, against my common sense, it may be to clarify a fact or present my beliefs as reasonable.


I hear you.And let me say that I spent 10 years in Catholic schools.But for the life of me I don't see how you go from from..... "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy."But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. TO....

Believe as I command or I will burn you alive.Without realizing that an institution whose position is..Believe as I command or I will burn you alive has no REAL connection with Jesus of Nazareth.

Last edited by Hank : Yesterday at 01:44 PM.
Hank is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM   #17539
thaskalos
The truth is out there...
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,930
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
I hear you.And let me say that I spent 10 years in Catholic schools.But for the life of me I don't see how you go from from..... "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy."But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. TO....

Believe as I command or I will burn you alive

Wait a minute now...he doesn't burn us "alive". He waits until we are dead.
__________________
Strength exerted equals more strength. Weakness indulged equals greater weakness.
thaskalos is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM   #17540
thaskalos
The truth is out there...
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,930
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnlgfnk
Evening, Thask.
And Hank if you're reading, you had a similar post.

When a self-described, intelligent atheist agrees with what I've read elsewhere, I tend to agree about Bruno. He entered the Dominicans under false pretenses, denying Christ's divinity, etc., etc., but keeping everything under his hat--a very strange cat.

I think it was wrong to submit Bruno to that fate, though not sure about "torture". It took 7 years to evaluate his case. The dangerous thing for the church in any age is to allow the culture to influence her members, rather than vice versa. The church was too close to the state in the context of the times.

Hopefully there is a similar level of outrage at the champions of the French Revolution, flying the flag of "Reason" (Reign of Terror) and introducing the guillotine to clerics and Catholic peasants, et.al., the gulags, and this guy...

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=290513

I hope I'm like you, Thask, in that I'm not going to let anyone else decide for me what's true--not even episcopal malfeasance in the past or present. I simply find what the Catholic Church proposes as truth compelling, like scores of intelligent and sincere individuals far more than me.

I'm not about the hopeless attempt of "converting" anybody over the internet. When I do participate, against my common sense, it may be to clarify a fact or present my beliefs as reasonable.

Like you, I too march to my own drummer...and -- as have you -- have come to the realization that there is no real purpose to our endless debate here. We believe what we believe...and only direct experience of the most intimate kind can bring about a radical ideological change within us.

Speaking for myself...I believe that no individual religion holds a monopoly on the "Truth"...and that a pure heart can get to the "promised land" through a variety of different pathways. And I decry violence, wherever I see it...because I believe that we are all, first and foremost...CITIZENS OF THE WORLD. Compassion has no boundaries...IMO.
__________________
Strength exerted equals more strength. Weakness indulged equals greater weakness.

Last edited by thaskalos : Yesterday at 02:04 PM.
thaskalos is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM   #17541
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,372
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
So the invention of the printing press, which motivated the translation of the Bible into English and other languages, and the spread of literacy, which allowed more people to read it, did not change things at all?


The more techie we get, the more depraved the human race has become. I would say, technology has been a tremendous boost to man's depravity. Hasn't done a whole lot for man's spiritual condition. (Reminder: see my post 17344 and the David Berlinski quote therein.)

But by the same token it has aided in getting the gospel spread to all the nations.
__________________
For man is born for trouble, as sparks fly upward. Job 5:7
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 07:12 PM   #17542
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,372
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
I hear you.And let me say that I spent 10 years in Catholic schools.But for the life of me I don't see how you go from from..... "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy."But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. TO....

Believe as I command or I will burn you alive.Without realizing that an institution whose position is..Believe as I command or I will burn you alive has no REAL connection with Jesus of Nazareth.


The call of the gospel is to repent of your sins and believe on him who paid the price for the sins of all those who come to believe in him. "For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life". The Father offers forgiveness and redemption through his Son.

But would God be very loving if he forced people to believe on him? God sends no one to hell. Unrepentant sinners freely choose that option for themselves.

C.S. Lewis wrote on hell:

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy
will be done.' All that are in hell choose it. Without that self-choice, there could be no hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock, it is opened.


How can you blame God for your choices?

Finally, Jesus taught about hell more than all the apostles combined! So there is a "real connection" PLUS. I would suggest that this demonstrates his love for sinners. True love doesn't cover up or conceal danger to which others are exposed. To the contrary: True love shouts "fire" when the packed theater is really on fire.
__________________
For man is born for trouble, as sparks fly upward. Job 5:7
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 07:18 PM   #17543
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,372
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Like you, I too march to my own drummer...and -- as have you -- have come to the realization that there is no real purpose to our endless debate here. We believe what we believe...and only direct experience of the most intimate kind can bring about a radical ideological change within us.

Speaking for myself...I believe that no individual religion holds a monopoly on the "Truth"...and that a pure heart can get to the "promised land" through a variety of different pathways. And I decry violence, wherever I see it...because I believe that we are all, first and foremost...CITIZENS OF THE WORLD. Compassion has no boundaries...IMO.


Just like Jesus marched to his own drumbeat, too, eh? Just remember: It will be your own lust for autonomy and self-authority that will land you in a very bad place. You will be in a place loaded with untold numbers of like-minded people -- all who were looking to be their own boss in this life, also. If you stop to ponder the implications of this, you would shudder at the very thought of being in that kind of place.
__________________
For man is born for trouble, as sparks fly upward. Job 5:7
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM   #17544
Actor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
The more techie we get, the more depraved the human race has become.
Define depraved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I would say, technology has been a tremendous boost to man's depravity.
Your evidence for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Hasn't done a whole lot for man's spiritual condition.
The big advantage of the purveyors of Christianity is that their customers will never know that they've been had. The dead cannot sue.
  • There are more full bellies.
  • Life expectancy up from 30 years and now nearing 80.
  • I have a very good chance of making it to 95 according to current mortality tables.
  • If I had been born the same day the mythical Jesus was born I would have died at age 2.
  • I'm a three time cancer survivor.
  • Deaths due to wars peaked during WWII and have been declining since.
  • Smallpox eradicated.
Screw "spiritual condition"!
__________________
Some people even find clarity threatening. If you say something straight and clear, straightforward, unambiguous it sounds to some people as though they're being attacked -- Richard Dawkins
Actor is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 11:25 PM   #17545
Hank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,103
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
The call of the gospel is to repent of your sins and believe on him who paid the price for the sins of all those who come to believe in him. "For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life". The Father offers forgiveness and redemption through his Son.

But would God be very loving if he forced people to believe on him? God sends no one to hell. Unrepentant sinners freely choose that option for themselves.

C.S. Lewis wrote on hell:

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy
will be done.' All that are in hell choose it. Without that self-choice, there could be no hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock, it is opened.


How can you blame God for your choices?

Finally, Jesus taught about hell more than all the apostles combined! So there is a "real connection" PLUS. I would suggest that this demonstrates his love for sinners. True love doesn't cover up or conceal danger to which others are exposed. To the contrary: True love shouts "fire" when the packed theater is really on fire.


Pay attention Boxie.We were discussing Bruno being burned alive by the "church".I was not referring to "hell" I was referring to the "church" burning people alive at the stake for holding "improper" beliefs.
Hank is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Yesterday, 11:41 PM   #17546
Hank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,103
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Just like Jesus marched to his own drumbeat, too, eh? Just remember: It will be your own lust for autonomy and self-authority that will land you in a very bad place. You will be in a place loaded with untold numbers of like-minded people -- all who were looking to be their own boss in this life, also. If you stop to ponder the implications of this, you would shudder at the very thought of being in that kind of place.


Ok.So I guess this also means that people such as Socrates,Epictetus,and Siddhartha
are all in "hell" but You will be saved.Right?
Hank is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Today, 07:18 PM   #17547
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,372
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
Pay attention Boxie.We were discussing Bruno being burned alive by the "church".I was not referring to "hell" I was referring to the "church" burning people alive at the stake for holding "improper" beliefs.


Sorry about that. And just what "church" did that? Couldn't have been the RCC, right?
__________________
For man is born for trouble, as sparks fly upward. Job 5:7
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old Today, 07:24 PM   #17548
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,372
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Define depraved.


Got a dictionary?

Quote:
Your evidence for this?


Again...I refer you back to Berlinski's quote that I posted last week sometime. (The post number is my previous post to you.)



Quote:
The big advantage of the purveyors of Christianity is that their customers will never know that they've been had. The dead cannot sue.
  • There are more full bellies.
  • Life expectancy up from 30 years and now nearing 80.
  • I have a very good chance of making it to 95 according to current mortality tables.
  • If I had been born the same day the mythical Jesus was born I would have died at age 2.
  • I'm a three time cancer survivor.
  • Deaths due to wars peaked during WWII and have been declining since.
  • Smallpox eradicated.
Screw "spiritual condition"!


The big shocker to all unbelievers who have died is that they all know the Christians were right because the bible spoke the truth. There is Justice in this universe and they're finding that out!
__________________
For man is born for trouble, as sparks fly upward. Job 5:7
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:00 PM.



Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999 - 2014 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed @ 1024x768 Resolution Or Higher