Canterbury bucking industry trends - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Track Phantom · 07-07-2015, 12:12 PM

http://www.minnpost.com/business/201...lM1ZGc.twitter

Over the July 4 holiday weekend, Canterbury drew more than 40,000 visitors, including 7,657 for racing on Thursday and 20,376 for fireworks on Friday — a track record. The crowds bumped the daily average to 6,641, putting Canterbury on pace for its fifth consecutive season of averaging 6,000-plus per day.

Canterbury had 7,657 on hand on Thursday (1M bet on their races nationwide). Presque Isle, one of the only other tracks willing to state their attendance, had 829 people on hand. 829!

RXB · 07-07-2015, 12:47 PM

When they show the grandstand on camera, it's chockfull of people compared to most places. If I was operating a racetrack I'd want a nice big crowd and I wouldn't care if most of those people were strictly small bettors, I'd want them there to create some atmosphere. The people running Canterbury actually get it, that it's both a gambling game and an event, not one or the other.

1st time lasix · 07-07-2015, 01:56 PM

I think the handle and attendence in Tampa has improved ovewr the past several years. To this observer....it always seems crowded at Oaklawn,...Keeneland,... Del Mar ....and Saratoga....

Track Phantom · 07-07-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st time lasix

I...it always seems crowded at Oaklawn,...Keeneland,... Del Mar ....and Saratoga....

Agreed but I think those are unrealistic comparisons to all other tracks. Each of those meets are very niche and, other than Oaklawn, short.

Maybe shortening meets, focusing on quality and packaging it as an "event" is the answer. Probably not applicable in all jurisdictions but I still think people that run tracks, if they care at all, should pay close attention to what CBY is doing.

VeryOldMan · 07-07-2015, 03:14 PM

Good read - thanks for the post.

It's a bit oblique about the relationship with the Native American tribe - I gather from some quick research that there is some purse enhancement from the tribe's gaming operations? So is it a quasi racino?

Some great quotes from the owners about how to attract a crowd. Including trying to channel Mike Veeck. Fun stuff.

Clocker · 07-07-2015, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

It's a bit oblique about the relationship with the Native American tribe - I gather from some quick research that there is some purse enhancement from the tribe's gaming operations? So is it a quasi racino?

Race tracks in Minnesota can also run a card room. Canterbury has a large one, mostly poker.

They wanted to expand into a racino (slots), but there was a long, drawn out fight with the Indian casinos, especially Mystic Lake, a full casino, which is a few miles down the road from the track. Essentially, Mystic Lake bought them off, kicking in millions a year in purse money in exchange for Canterbury dropping any attempts to become a racino.

SuperPickle · 07-07-2015, 03:37 PM

I went to Canterbury last year.

It was a Thursday night in August or September. They had almost 8,000 people!

Here's the rub though. They still didn't handle a million dollars. Minnesota people see Canterbury more as a country fair. It's 7,500 $2 bettors.

I will say this. It's one of few throwback experiences. Three deep around the paddock. Two deep on the rail. Lines for food.

VeryOldMan · 07-07-2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker

Race tracks in Minnesota can also run a card room. Canterbury has a large one, mostly poker.

They wanted to expand into a racino (slots), but there was a long, drawn out fight with the Indian casinos, especially Mystic Lake, a full casino, which is a few miles down the road from the track. Essentially, Mystic Lake bought them off, kicking in millions a year in purse money in exchange for Canterbury dropping any attempts to become a racino.

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

I remember my dad and I going to Suffolk Downs back when horse racing was the only game in town - and the crowd was measured in thousands. Now I go to Laurel or Charles Town and see a tiny fraction of that number.

It would be great if Canterbury discovered a secret sauce to help get people out to the track.

But it sounds like there are some subsidies in play - I often wonder which tracks/circuits could survive if all gaming/slots/etc. subsidies vanished tomorrow.

Clocker · 07-07-2015, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

It would be great if Canterbury discovered a secret sauce to help get people out to the track.

But it sounds like there are some subsidies in play - I often wonder which tracks/circuits could survive if all gaming/slots/etc. subsidies vanished tomorrow.

They are getting people to the track, but those people aren't betting. On Thursday before the Fourth, on-track handle was $200K, off-track was $1M. On Sunday after the holiday it was $160K on, $300K off. Their big handle comes on Thursday and Friday when they run at night. Sat. and Sun. afternoons they do poorly against all the big tracks that are running.

VeryOldMan · 07-07-2015, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker

They are getting people to the track, but those people aren't betting. On Thursday before the Fourth, on-track handle was $200K, off-track was $1M. On Sunday after the holiday it was $160K on, $300K off. Their big handle comes on Thursday and Friday when they run at night. Sat. and Sun. afternoons they do poorly against all the big tracks that are running.

Wow.

Back in "the day" - a $1 million handle was the weekend target I'd look for at Suffolk Downs. 10,000 attendance and a million handle. 40+ years ago. $100 per person! Inflation is 4X+ since then.

Which tracks/circuits can survive without casino subsidies now?

Clocker · 07-07-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

Wow.

Back in "the day" - a $1 million handle was the weekend target I'd look for at Suffolk Downs. 10,000 attendance and a million handle. 40+ years ago. $100 per person! Inflation is 4X+ since then.

Which tracks/circuits can survive without casino subsidies now?

Exactly. On that Sunday, attendance was about 4000, which I assume means paid adult admissions. That comes out to about $40 per person.

thespaah · 07-07-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

I went to Canterbury last year.

It was a Thursday night in August or September. They had almost 8,000 people!

Here's the rub though. They still didn't handle a million dollars. Minnesota people see Canterbury more as a country fair. It's 7,500 $2 bettors.

I will say this. It's one of few throwback experiences. Three deep around the paddock. Two deep on the rail. Lines for food.

accept they are not two dollar bettors.
They are betting the minimum...$1 exactas/doubles/trifectas....dime supers.
Dollar straight bets.....And they are betting less than $5 per race.
Perhaps its time to take a look at these minimums. Obviously the low mins are not increasing handle.

Zydeco · 07-07-2015, 06:15 PM

Doesn't Canterbury have some low take out wagers?

Clocker · 07-07-2015, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zydeco

Doesn't Canterbury have some low take out wagers?

It's 14% on Pick 3 and Pick 4.

Oracle · 07-07-2015, 09:34 PM

Canterbury Park is my home track and we have some good momentum. We are starting to get trainers who hadn't raced here before or for many years. Amoss and Keen showed up this year, and Diodoro came in two years ago. The racing is competitive and the field sizes are good.

With the perceived troubles in Illinois and Iowa, Canterbury Park should be looking strong for the next several years.